EPTSo this is what it feels like for zerg to kick terran's butt? Damn, that's an adrenaline rush!
[G] iEchoic's 2fact2port TvT - Page 30
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
So this is what it feels like for zerg to kick terran's butt? Damn, that's an adrenaline rush! | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
link | ||
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Hawk2
United States229 Posts
Prediction the next generation of TvZ will be ghost, marauder, viking. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
iEchoic isn't some sort of magic build machine you know :p | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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nVRomanceDawn
Germany4 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On February 18 2011 21:49 nVRomanceDawn wrote: this build is easy to counter. maybe some knows mym.cloud he said if u go 1rax fe into 4rax 2ports mass marodeur and vikings u counter it pretty easy. i tried it and it was like afreewin. I would imagine that it's incredibly difficult to make enough marauders to protect against hellions, and keep up in viking production at the same time. Hellions splash damage is more than enough to take care of marauders once there's a critical mass as well. I'd like to see the replay of your game that demonstrates how easy it was for you, I would not be surprised to find that your opponent was not very skillful. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4222 Posts
On February 18 2011 10:17 XerrolAvengerII wrote: I just played this build against a standard Marine Tank Science Vessel build, with emphasis on the tanks apparently. It really comes down to Mutalisk battles, that is where the integral Mutalisk armor and attack upgrades are important... having lots of Mutalisks helps win the air battles and kill tanks, while Lurkers and lings prevent marines from doing too much damage to your mutas, and Scourge help eliminate Science Vessels. In the end Ultralisks are just a really expensive zergling that soaks up all the floated gas off of 5 + bases and abuses armor upgrades against anti ground. Really, there's not too much difference lol. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On February 18 2011 22:04 Nemireck wrote: I would imagine that it's incredibly difficult to make enough marauders to protect against hellions, and keep up in viking production at the same time. Hellions splash damage is more than enough to take care of marauders once there's a critical mass as well. I'd like to see the replay of your game that demonstrates how easy it was for you, I would not be surprised to find that your opponent was not very skillful. Well.. as long as you wall off your mineral lines and turrets against drops you don't really need a marauder count to "defend" against hellions because hellions can't really do anything to a terran with no marines and scv's that are unreachable. The marauders serve the same purpose as the hellions do though except instead of harassing workers you harass buildings. I found the greatest utility in the marauders to arise when the hellion player starts trying to take those easy extra bases to maintain viking superiority. Hellions and air might be fast but marauders with armor upgrade will tear through enough buildings before they get picked off to make it worthwhile. You can run and stimsnipe expansions or drop them in the base and take out starports and addons. They get especially strong once banshees are replaced by bc's as a bc will kill a marauder force about as well as it kills an ultralisk. Yeah you might have air superiority but when I run 20 marauders into your main that main is still going to be gone before all my units are dead. What usually happens when I go against this build is that I start doing marauder pressure once he's spread out on 4 or more bases and generally they get stunned by the realization that they can't actually shut down my pressure and the only counter attack they can do is to try to hit my very turreted bases with air and thats what I want them to, I want to bring the viking fight into a position where I get an advantage so that I can wrangle that air control from them. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 Air dominant players sometimes get too confident and don't feel the need to watch out for drops, but as your air force has to stay gathered at the same point to maintain its potence, it's so easy to circumvent it if you're not wary enough... | ||
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Hawkke
United States41 Posts
On February 17 2011 10:50 entropius wrote: Ghosts cost more, are less mobile, have less health, and do less damage than banshees. If you're spending your gas on ghosts and I'm spending my gas on banshees I win, because -- as day9 says -- I just fucking kill your ghosts, while your marauders watch. If you're suggesting ghosts as a way to kill hellions, then, sure -- ghosts don't take extra damage from them. But this is only relevant if you have a pile of marines to kill the banshees with, and I don't think the ghosts will kill the hellions before the hellions kill most of your marines and then the banshees eat everything else. Ghosts don't seem all that useful unless you're planning on using their spells, neither of which is relevant here. (Remember the banshees in this strategy do not rely on cloak.) If you want ghost/marine/marauder, where the marauders and ghosts try to keep the marines safe, then it comes down to micro, where you have a disadvantage. If the marines are in the ball or in front of it the hellions kill them; if the marines are behind then the banshees start blowing up marauders/ghosts. Plus, the banshee/hellion player is more mobile than you; that marine force that you're trying to keep safe from the hellions is the only thing you have that can shoot up well enough to kill banshees, and they have to cover anywhere in your base that's not covered by turrets while simultaneously not getting killed by hellions. http://www.youtube.com/edwardstarcraft#p/u/4/nFz9g5cHsEI | ||
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Hondelul
1999 Posts
well it seem alternity built 4starports? the 3 helions and 1 medivac he lost without doing damage didn´t help either. if he spared the 2 additional starport and build an reactor instead on 1 of his facs he would have way more helions, +1 he lost at watchtower that he could have called back but it showed that the 1st drop did really good damage and he was ahead in harvesters. a scan to take out the ghost first would also be nice. don´t know if this was an good example, but the cloaked ghost really did a good job  and i have to say was a good cast, i think i watch more of them  | ||
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On February 18 2011 21:49 nVRomanceDawn wrote: this build is easy to counter. maybe some knows mym.cloud he said if u go 1rax fe into 4rax 2ports mass marodeur and vikings u counter it pretty easy. i tried it and it was like afreewin. I guess the really stupid thing about this whole meta-game, is that it ends up like ZvZ in scbw: most vikings wins, because if the hellion player gains air control, then the banshees kill the marauders, but if the marauder player gains air control, then all the banshees die to vikings, and the hellions dyish to the marauders... Still, hellions are not "terrible" against marauders, well positioned hellions can inflict strong damage... Even so, this style and the answer in viking combat basically voids any concern for ground composition EXCEPT that hellions are faster and better for harass than marauders... because of that, viking battles aside, the hellion player (who also spends the gas on banshees, instead of marauders) has strong harassment and containment power of the marauder player. When thors get involved, it is likely that a greater amount of harassment is needed... hellions and banshees can capitalize on the slow speed of thors in order to harass, at the same time, thats basically 2 banshees, or 2.5 vikings roughly. While thors can be good for busting a player using this build, the player using this build has an advantage in that they have superior map control, and containment power, and therefor have a better situation to expand. I haven't yet had the pleasure of bashing my head against that though. | ||
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pulzar
Canada8 Posts
I'm sure my BO was slightly off from ideal, but it seemed to follow the directions fairly well. It seems to me that even 3 marauders hitting me before I have a banshee out causes severe damage to my econ as I have to pull SCVs to save myself. Am I just way off on the timing? I wouldn't think so, any quick pressure with marauders should be able to get to me before banshees are out, and I've got nothing to hold them. Unless I missed a bunker somewhere in that build . | ||
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Impervious
Canada4222 Posts
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pulzar
Canada8 Posts
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:19 iEchoic wrote: SjoW ran the Hellion/Air composition (with a different build order) v KawaiiRice with success in a recent clan war, a link to the replay pack is below (it's game 1 on Xelnaga) - link Watched it, great game by Sjow. He forgot the upgrades but other than that it showed that this build is f*ckin awesome in the hands of an extremely good player such as him. It's just that is is SO EASY to get ahead using this build, as well as it is so easy to maintain map control. And let's face it, a good player that is ahead and has map control will have a very hard time losing ;] | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
I <3 vileEchoic, you're the man. | ||
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Ultimea
United States25 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-190319.jpg) | ||
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kwantz
Canada65 Posts
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