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PinheadXXXXXX
Profile Joined February 2012
United States897 Posts
February 26 2012 23:09 GMT
#11341
is grid hotkey layout or regular better to use? I am in top bronze and have been using grid as I find it easier to remember, and am more of a visual person, but I am getting the impression that I am in a small minority. Should I stay with grid layout or switch to regular?
Taeja the one true Byunjwa~
vorxaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada245 Posts
February 26 2012 23:23 GMT
#11342
IMO Grid is better, unless you have to switch from regular, just less hand movement in general.
What you may find interesting is the dark layout, you can try that our or use their principles to do your own refinements of grid.
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
February 27 2012 00:31 GMT
#11343
As a T, I read many guides telling T to banshee harass P. I know this is strong and can contain the P, however what if the P simply makes observers? (Assuming I am cloaked banshees). I dont mean observers with the P's main army, but what if they ake observers and send them to the edge of the map, where my cloaked banshees park when not harassing his base? This way, he will know my banshee is there?
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
February 27 2012 00:58 GMT
#11344
On February 27 2012 09:31 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
As a T, I read many guides telling T to banshee harass P. I know this is strong and can contain the P, however what if the P simply makes observers? (Assuming I am cloaked banshees). I dont mean observers with the P's main army, but what if they ake observers and send them to the edge of the map, where my cloaked banshees park when not harassing his base? This way, he will know my banshee is there?


You already asked this question a few pages back to which someone replied.

On February 23 2012 16:13 Vod.kaholic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 11:31 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
As a T, I read many guides telling T to banshee harass P. I know this is strong and can contain the P, however what if the P simply makes observers? (Assuming I am cloaked banshees). I dont mean observers with the P's main army, but what if they ake observers and send them to the edge of the map, where my cloaked banshees park when not harassing his base? This way, he will know my banshee is there?


Here's the thing about cloak banshees (from a protoss perspective, and in general): The banshees with cloak will require protoss to keep 1-2 observers around at least in order to deflect harass, or invest in cannons. This means he also can't move out without obs. Now, since he has to produce anywhere between 1-3 obs to be as safe as possible, that means he's not making colossi or immortals from his robo, and generally makes a good amount of stalkers.

First of all, cloak banshees aren't meant to do infinite damage - they have the potential against an unprepared opponent, but you should never rely on that. Your goal is map control. It doesn't matter if he knows exactly where the banshee is at all times because you'll still force him to make observers, micro them to look for banshees instead of scouting your army movements, and he'll have to split his forces to counter your harass, which buys you time to do whatever you want. The added bonus is that he can't afford to move out on the map without an observer, and if he splits any forces without an obs, the banshee(s) can put a timer on his attack and shut it down.

tl;dr: it doesn't matter if he sees the banshees. They're still going to buy you map control as long as you keep them active and don't lose them. Cloak amplifies this effect by forcing obs and occupying robo time.


Stoffelhase
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany162 Posts
February 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#11345
what would have happened at mlg if:
huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals

Finals:
first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead
then i.e. huks wins this 4:2

now we have 2 options:
1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this)
or
2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?

this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
InfernoStarcraft
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia136 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-27 01:49:28
February 27 2012 01:48 GMT
#11346
So I guess mine is a bit of a tip or something that doesn't really deserve a thread, but I never seem to see any pros or anything doing this sooooo

Do people not know that you can focus fire a target and then a-move in any direction so that your units will auto attack anything with threat?

Example: you send marines to kill rocks, you a-click anywhere, zerglings run up to kill marines, marines kill zerglings instead of just dying.

I see even pro players often lose units that are focus firing a specific target and its often to a smaller force, so i thought this would be worth mentioning if it's not widely known.

Also note after units kill the target they carry out the a-move, so don't click somewhere stupid.
I like Hello Panda's
coriamon
Profile Joined August 2011
244 Posts
February 27 2012 02:31 GMT
#11347
On February 27 2012 10:48 InfernoStarcraft wrote:
So I guess mine is a bit of a tip or something that doesn't really deserve a thread, but I never seem to see any pros or anything doing this sooooo

Do people not know that you can focus fire a target and then a-move in any direction so that your units will auto attack anything with threat?

Example: you send marines to kill rocks, you a-click anywhere, zerglings run up to kill marines, marines kill zerglings instead of just dying.

I see even pro players often lose units that are focus firing a specific target and its often to a smaller force, so i thought this would be worth mentioning if it's not widely known.

Also note after units kill the target they carry out the a-move, so don't click somewhere stupid.


That's a neat trick. You should post it into the 1000 tips thread.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214757
InfernoStarcraft
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia136 Posts
February 27 2012 02:48 GMT
#11348
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 27 2012 11:31 coriamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 10:48 InfernoStarcraft wrote:
So I guess mine is a bit of a tip or something that doesn't really deserve a thread, but I never seem to see any pros or anything doing this sooooo

Do people not know that you can focus fire a target and then a-move in any direction so that your units will auto attack anything with threat?

Example: you send marines to kill rocks, you a-click anywhere, zerglings run up to kill marines, marines kill zerglings instead of just dying.

I see even pro players often lose units that are focus firing a specific target and its often to a smaller force, so i thought this would be worth mentioning if it's not widely known.

Also note after units kill the target they carry out the a-move, so don't click somewhere stupid.


That's a neat trick. You should post it into the 1000 tips thread.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214757



thank you!
I like Hello Panda's
IronOutlaw
Profile Joined November 2011
United States48 Posts
February 27 2012 04:10 GMT
#11349
Who is a good Protoss player to watch with a Gateway unit heavy playing style?
"People won't care what you know until they know that you care."
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-27 04:22:28
February 27 2012 04:22 GMT
#11350
I have a SQ!

What's a fun custom game ^^

I never play customs. Like never. But I want to right now, as I currently unable to play 1v1.

The problem with 99.99% of customs, is that they are fucking complicated, or require more than 5 minutes to learn. Like all those DOTA style games (whoa those are too fucking confusing and agitating), tower defense, mineral mining games... just what's a fun easy game.

I remember BW had like those cool defense games (like starship troopers, not fucking gayass tower defense) and hero games. Those were simple and straightforward. wtf.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
February 27 2012 04:32 GMT
#11351
On February 27 2012 13:10 IronOutlaw wrote:
Who is a good Protoss player to watch with a Gateway unit heavy playing style?


I don't watch him, but i believe Huk has been relying almost entirely on gateway semi-all-ins for a while now. Is that what you're looking for? Or something more, "I have many gateways because I rely mostly on getting to the lategame and using High templar with gateway units"?
cari-kira
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany655 Posts
February 27 2012 06:07 GMT
#11352
1. how can i dismiss the last waypoint in a shift queued command line?
2. how can i make a unit patrol in a circle, instead of going from the first to the last waypoint and back in the opposite direction? (just curiosity, saw that on some streams)
Live and let live
Arachne
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
South Africa426 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-27 06:54:49
February 27 2012 06:53 GMT
#11353
^Close the patrol loop.

I.E make sure the last patrol point is on the 1st. Or at least thats what I was told in 1000tips.

Also if anyone feels like answering my question on the previous page, I would be greatful. The attempt actually avoided the asnwer, coz if you think about it, those who cheese to GM are already making less mistakes than the other player to win.

On February 27 2012 06:38 TheEconomist wrote:
My question is this
How would you rate the levels of mistakes tou are allowed to make in each division?

Obviously GM is little to no mistakes, but how does it scale down?
GM is top 200
Masters is top 2%
Diamond is top 20% (exclusing masters)
Plat is next 20%
gold is next 20%
Silver is second last 20%
bronze is bottom 20%

Please. Someone? Getting kinda down about laddering atm losing to things where control is an issue.
If I were a rich man, I wouldn't be here
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
February 27 2012 08:04 GMT
#11354
On February 27 2012 15:53 TheEconomist wrote:
^Close the patrol loop.

I.E make sure the last patrol point is on the 1st. Or at least thats what I was told in 1000tips.

Also if anyone feels like answering my question on the previous page, I would be greatful. The attempt actually avoided the asnwer, coz if you think about it, those who cheese to GM are already making less mistakes than the other player to win.

Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 06:38 TheEconomist wrote:
My question is this
How would you rate the levels of mistakes tou are allowed to make in each division?

Obviously GM is little to no mistakes, but how does it scale down?
GM is top 200
Masters is top 2%
Diamond is top 20% (exclusing masters)
Plat is next 20%
gold is next 20%
Silver is second last 20%
bronze is bottom 20%

Please. Someone? Getting kinda down about laddering atm losing to things where control is an issue.


this might be kind of annoying as a question but, can you qualify "mistakes"?

it's sort of a vague idea the way you're saying it. floating 3k minerals is a mistake. but it's a lot more of a mistake than floating 1.2k. but they're both really bad depending on where you are in the game. attacking into siege lines is a mistake, attacking into a few siege tanks with a few unsieged because he's moving and barely not having enough is a mistake, but a lot less of a mistake. overall though there isn't a clear # of things you can fuck up and be okay.

similarly there are definitely clear mistakes you can make that WILL lose you a game, but it also doesnt mean it was the only mistake. for example you might point at an engagement as the reason you lost. the engagement went terribly, the other person countered and you died. in reality you were macro-ing terrible and you would have been way ahead and that battle never needed to happen in the first place, or you reacted to something right or wrong in the early game and didn't follow through correctly and the entire game could have gone differently.

also, i don't know how you (not you you) really explain "bad macro" as a mistake, but it is something that has a lot more impact on your ranking than just "how many mistakes you make", unless, again, "how you macro" is on some sort of scale of how many mistakes you make.
burningPurple
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway76 Posts
February 27 2012 08:15 GMT
#11355
On February 27 2012 10:48 InfernoStarcraft wrote:
So I guess mine is a bit of a tip or something that doesn't really deserve a thread, but I never seem to see any pros or anything doing this sooooo

Do people not know that you can focus fire a target and then a-move in any direction so that your units will auto attack anything with threat?

Example: you send marines to kill rocks, you a-click anywhere, zerglings run up to kill marines, marines kill zerglings instead of just dying.

I see even pro players often lose units that are focus firing a specific target and its often to a smaller force, so i thought this would be worth mentioning if it's not widely known.

Also note after units kill the target they carry out the a-move, so don't click somewhere stupid.


Do you have to attack rocks (right click) then shift-attackmove anywhere or do you just focus fire then attackmove, without any shift-usage involved?
You must learn to allow patience and stillness to take over from anxiety and frantic activity... The good player is patient. He is observant, controlling his patience, and organizing his composure. When he sees an opportunity, he explodes.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2594 Posts
February 27 2012 08:21 GMT
#11356
On February 27 2012 05:51 Aehnn wrote:
just finished a z vs z and i am a little bit upset about the fact that 3 times a baneling of my opponent kills 2 banelings of mine (without splash damage, but one after the other). how can this be? it sucks...

Banelings don't have an attack other than their explosion, so what you are describing is actually just your Banelings being on attack move and detonating on one of his Banelings. Since a Baneling can survive two Baneling attacks, you lose two of your own Banelings for every one of your opponent's that you kill.

Moral of the story: Banelings should be kept on Move-command as a rule, and detonated manually (not necessarily by using the detonate command, just don't put them on attack unless you intend for them to blow up), because just a-moving them allows your opponent to force super inefficient trades. As a Protoss, I will for example blink a Stalker into the middle of a pack of Banelings if I see that my opponent isn't controlling them properly, which has the same effect.
The frumious Bandersnatch
Arachne
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
South Africa426 Posts
February 27 2012 08:25 GMT
#11357
On February 27 2012 17:04 Angel_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 15:53 TheEconomist wrote:
^Close the patrol loop.

I.E make sure the last patrol point is on the 1st. Or at least thats what I was told in 1000tips.

Also if anyone feels like answering my question on the previous page, I would be greatful. The attempt actually avoided the asnwer, coz if you think about it, those who cheese to GM are already making less mistakes than the other player to win.

On February 27 2012 06:38 TheEconomist wrote:
My question is this
How would you rate the levels of mistakes tou are allowed to make in each division?

Obviously GM is little to no mistakes, but how does it scale down?
GM is top 200
Masters is top 2%
Diamond is top 20% (exclusing masters)
Plat is next 20%
gold is next 20%
Silver is second last 20%
bronze is bottom 20%

Please. Someone? Getting kinda down about laddering atm losing to things where control is an issue.


this might be kind of annoying as a question but, can you qualify "mistakes"?

it's sort of a vague idea the way you're saying it. floating 3k minerals is a mistake. but it's a lot more of a mistake than floating 1.2k. but they're both really bad depending on where you are in the game. attacking into siege lines is a mistake, attacking into a few siege tanks with a few unsieged because he's moving and barely not having enough is a mistake, but a lot less of a mistake. overall though there isn't a clear # of things you can fuck up and be okay.

similarly there are definitely clear mistakes you can make that WILL lose you a game, but it also doesnt mean it was the only mistake. for example you might point at an engagement as the reason you lost. the engagement went terribly, the other person countered and you died. in reality you were macro-ing terrible and you would have been way ahead and that battle never needed to happen in the first place, or you reacted to something right or wrong in the early game and didn't follow through correctly and the entire game could have gone differently.

also, i don't know how you (not you you) really explain "bad macro" as a mistake, but it is something that has a lot more impact on your ranking than just "how many mistakes you make", unless, again, "how you macro" is on some sort of scale of how many mistakes you make.


Bad macro is a series of mistakes, not just one. Yes, at the end of the day, bad macro is why you lost, but as people have agreed upon, bad macro is probably the worst single reason given to a player who is trying to learn.

Yes, floating 3k minerals is a worse mistake than 1 k minerals, unless so happens, you are zerg on 130/200 floating 5k 2.5k and go 15 broodlords (Still not entirely sure how I lost that one that badly... ). Placing a robo bay 30 seconds late is a mistake, 2 minutes late a bigger one, forgetting it entirely a massive one. That kind of scale.

For example. a 4 gate hits at 5:45. If you are making ur 1st round of warp ins at 6 minutes, you are slow |(but ironically enough still diamond level). Most 5:45 4 gates are at master level iirc, where some of the GM's, with perfect pairing and what-not get 5:35 4 gates off a 12 gate, or really close to it (seen it once :O ).
If I were a rich man, I wouldn't be here
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
February 27 2012 09:28 GMT
#11358
On February 27 2012 17:25 TheEconomist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 17:04 Angel_ wrote:
On February 27 2012 15:53 TheEconomist wrote:
^Close the patrol loop.

I.E make sure the last patrol point is on the 1st. Or at least thats what I was told in 1000tips.

Also if anyone feels like answering my question on the previous page, I would be greatful. The attempt actually avoided the asnwer, coz if you think about it, those who cheese to GM are already making less mistakes than the other player to win.

On February 27 2012 06:38 TheEconomist wrote:
My question is this
How would you rate the levels of mistakes tou are allowed to make in each division?

Obviously GM is little to no mistakes, but how does it scale down?
GM is top 200
Masters is top 2%
Diamond is top 20% (exclusing masters)
Plat is next 20%
gold is next 20%
Silver is second last 20%
bronze is bottom 20%

Please. Someone? Getting kinda down about laddering atm losing to things where control is an issue.


this might be kind of annoying as a question but, can you qualify "mistakes"?

it's sort of a vague idea the way you're saying it. floating 3k minerals is a mistake. but it's a lot more of a mistake than floating 1.2k. but they're both really bad depending on where you are in the game. attacking into siege lines is a mistake, attacking into a few siege tanks with a few unsieged because he's moving and barely not having enough is a mistake, but a lot less of a mistake. overall though there isn't a clear # of things you can fuck up and be okay.

similarly there are definitely clear mistakes you can make that WILL lose you a game, but it also doesnt mean it was the only mistake. for example you might point at an engagement as the reason you lost. the engagement went terribly, the other person countered and you died. in reality you were macro-ing terrible and you would have been way ahead and that battle never needed to happen in the first place, or you reacted to something right or wrong in the early game and didn't follow through correctly and the entire game could have gone differently.

also, i don't know how you (not you you) really explain "bad macro" as a mistake, but it is something that has a lot more impact on your ranking than just "how many mistakes you make", unless, again, "how you macro" is on some sort of scale of how many mistakes you make.


Bad macro is a series of mistakes, not just one. Yes, at the end of the day, bad macro is why you lost, but as people have agreed upon, bad macro is probably the worst single reason given to a player who is trying to learn.

Yes, floating 3k minerals is a worse mistake than 1 k minerals, unless so happens, you are zerg on 130/200 floating 5k 2.5k and go 15 broodlords (Still not entirely sure how I lost that one that badly... ). Placing a robo bay 30 seconds late is a mistake, 2 minutes late a bigger one, forgetting it entirely a massive one. That kind of scale.

For example. a 4 gate hits at 5:45. If you are making ur 1st round of warp ins at 6 minutes, you are slow |(but ironically enough still diamond level). Most 5:45 4 gates are at master level iirc, where some of the GM's, with perfect pairing and what-not get 5:35 4 gates off a 12 gate, or really close to it (seen it once :O ).


im not disagreeing with what you said at all but, it doesn't really answer what i asked. also, telling someone that they lost because they have bad macro isnt bad in and of itself; it's only bad because it's not really specific. but if we're talking about specifics then we're already saying there isn't some number you can just generalize for every game or even most of your games.

what sort of answer are you looking for? there isn't a raw number of mistakes you can make. are you wanting a scale? a, "this is how bad you are expected to be in this league"? a +/- ratio of how off your macro can be from what it would be relative to a pro-gamer as a %? how do you factor in decisions that are mistakes? since raw mechanics are what basically get to at least to diamond do they even matter? im trying to help you ask your own question. there isn't a number of fuck ups you can have per league.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2594 Posts
February 27 2012 09:58 GMT
#11359
On February 27 2012 18:28 Angel_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 17:25 TheEconomist wrote:
On February 27 2012 17:04 Angel_ wrote:
On February 27 2012 15:53 TheEconomist wrote:
^Close the patrol loop.

I.E make sure the last patrol point is on the 1st. Or at least thats what I was told in 1000tips.

Also if anyone feels like answering my question on the previous page, I would be greatful. The attempt actually avoided the asnwer, coz if you think about it, those who cheese to GM are already making less mistakes than the other player to win.

On February 27 2012 06:38 TheEconomist wrote:
My question is this
How would you rate the levels of mistakes tou are allowed to make in each division?

Obviously GM is little to no mistakes, but how does it scale down?
GM is top 200
Masters is top 2%
Diamond is top 20% (exclusing masters)
Plat is next 20%
gold is next 20%
Silver is second last 20%
bronze is bottom 20%

Please. Someone? Getting kinda down about laddering atm losing to things where control is an issue.


this might be kind of annoying as a question but, can you qualify "mistakes"?

it's sort of a vague idea the way you're saying it. floating 3k minerals is a mistake. but it's a lot more of a mistake than floating 1.2k. but they're both really bad depending on where you are in the game. attacking into siege lines is a mistake, attacking into a few siege tanks with a few unsieged because he's moving and barely not having enough is a mistake, but a lot less of a mistake. overall though there isn't a clear # of things you can fuck up and be okay.

similarly there are definitely clear mistakes you can make that WILL lose you a game, but it also doesnt mean it was the only mistake. for example you might point at an engagement as the reason you lost. the engagement went terribly, the other person countered and you died. in reality you were macro-ing terrible and you would have been way ahead and that battle never needed to happen in the first place, or you reacted to something right or wrong in the early game and didn't follow through correctly and the entire game could have gone differently.

also, i don't know how you (not you you) really explain "bad macro" as a mistake, but it is something that has a lot more impact on your ranking than just "how many mistakes you make", unless, again, "how you macro" is on some sort of scale of how many mistakes you make.


Bad macro is a series of mistakes, not just one. Yes, at the end of the day, bad macro is why you lost, but as people have agreed upon, bad macro is probably the worst single reason given to a player who is trying to learn.

Yes, floating 3k minerals is a worse mistake than 1 k minerals, unless so happens, you are zerg on 130/200 floating 5k 2.5k and go 15 broodlords (Still not entirely sure how I lost that one that badly... ). Placing a robo bay 30 seconds late is a mistake, 2 minutes late a bigger one, forgetting it entirely a massive one. That kind of scale.

For example. a 4 gate hits at 5:45. If you are making ur 1st round of warp ins at 6 minutes, you are slow |(but ironically enough still diamond level). Most 5:45 4 gates are at master level iirc, where some of the GM's, with perfect pairing and what-not get 5:35 4 gates off a 12 gate, or really close to it (seen it once :O ).


im not disagreeing with what you said at all but, it doesn't really answer what i asked. also, telling someone that they lost because they have bad macro isnt bad in and of itself; it's only bad because it's not really specific. but if we're talking about specifics then we're already saying there isn't some number you can just generalize for every game or even most of your games.

what sort of answer are you looking for? there isn't a raw number of mistakes you can make. are you wanting a scale? a, "this is how bad you are expected to be in this league"? a +/- ratio of how off your macro can be from what it would be relative to a pro-gamer as a %? how do you factor in decisions that are mistakes? since raw mechanics are what basically get to at least to diamond do they even matter? im trying to help you ask your own question. there isn't a number of fuck ups you can have per league.

TheEconomist: If anything, this exchange should make clear that you aren't asking for a simple question with a simple answer. There is no objective method of quantifying the magnitude of a mistake, nor is there an objective method of determining what is a mistake. To arrive at such a system of quantification, you would have to define perfect play so that you could then measure deviations from it, and if anyone knew what perfect play was, then the SC2 Strategy forum could be replaced by a single [G] for every matchup.
The frumious Bandersnatch
nekigosu
Profile Joined June 2011
17 Posts
February 27 2012 11:19 GMT
#11360
i always see post talking about at 7min throw down an evolution chamber in case of cloak banshee or at 14 min you need to have how many bases and how many drones

My question is how do you guys know how many mins it is in game? There is like so many other stuffs to do to just take note of the time.

How do you guys do it?
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