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On May 18 2011 08:10 Nuttyguy wrote:
why dont pros use workers to harrass a building worker like a scv? they did this in BW
I think a better answer than those other ones is that worker harass is very situational, since most builds right now get out units relatively early, there's less to harass, when CC first becomes more common in PvT it'll happen. The other thing is that workers don't have moving-shot and it's a little trickier to target the scv with 3d buildings.
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I have a simple question:
How do you deal with hatch first in ZvZ? I come across it and I just feel like I'm cheesed, I don't know what to do against it, and I don't do it myself because I know it's just ridiculous. I want to all-in speedling him and laugh, but it's pretty hard to get that many lings when you don't have a 2nd hatch.
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Singapore44 Posts
What I have been trying to do is to make an obvious spine crawlers in the enemy base so that they would be forced to pull out some drones to attack the spine until the last second you cancel it so you only waste 25 minerals while wasting mining time.
Speedling/Baneling rush would be a good counter to 15hatch in zvz as well.
If you have ample scouting and dont want to rush , you would have saw the hatch first, from there just expand yourself.
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is there a way to unbind my middle scroll from zoom in/out? i assume there isnt because when i try to bind my scroll to a key it wont work but im seein if u guys know
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On May 18 2011 17:58 SlapMySalami wrote:
is there a way to unbind my middle scroll from zoom in/out? i assume there isnt because when i try to bind my scroll to a key it wont work but im seein if u guys know
Options > Controls > uncheck "Mouse wheel zoom"
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On May 18 2011 17:05 Belial88 wrote:
I have a simple question:
How do you deal with hatch first in ZvZ? I come across it and I just feel like I'm cheesed, I don't know what to do against it, and I don't do it myself because I know it's just ridiculous. I want to all-in speedling him and laugh, but it's pretty hard to get that many lings when you don't have a 2nd hatch.
Hatch first is definitely an advantage against 14/14 in ZvZ, the most solid and consistent response is speedling expand. Depending on the map and your read, you may or may not want to follow it up with banelings. There are 3 basic types of hatch first defenses to 14/14
No-gas "spanishwa" style:
Against this I've found the most success building enough lings to threaten them and force them to get 3+ queens and lots of spines (remember, they're playing totally blind with no speedlings) and then not mining more gas and droning very hard behind on your expo, you can actually get ahead or close in econ in many cases and the player with better macro will win. Look for opportunities to run in and snipe some drones and try to position overlords so that you can see when your opponent takes their gas.
Roach defense. This puts not immediate pressure, but there is a very powerful timing attack that comes when they get speed after roaches. It's typically 6-8 roaches followed by a large speedling rally. If you have a baneling nest, get 1-2 banelings and keep them back and try to get off good hits and try to get enough roaches of your own. I don't know the exact timing in my head, but I think you want to get to about 28 drones and then drop 3 spines (which will drop you down to 23 drones). I personally find this to be the hardest to deal with against hatch first and one of the strongest ways to play with hatch first.
Note: If your opponent doesn't build enough zerglings early (I think 8 is necessary), even after you put down your hatch, just keep rallying speedlings, you will overwhelm him pretty quickly.
speedling follow-up: So here's where it can feel a little rock-paper scissory, I still prefer to speedling expand always, but this should probably theoretically lose to a 1-base ling-baneling all-in because banelings are very strong against speedlings. If you do speedling expand, you need to get guys back on gas immediately because otherwise you will just get overrun with speedlings (his biggest advantage is larva, not immediate economy).
Hope that was helpful.
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On May 18 2011 21:12 Sated wrote:
As Protoss, how can I scout a 6-pool on a map like Shattered Temple or Metallopolis when the Zerg player is in the last place I'd normally scout (close-by-air). I always feel that there's nothing I can do if the Zerg 6-pools in this situation.
EDIT: I pretty much open 12gate, 14gas in all match-ups. Should I consider an earlier gate against Zerg?
Edit: You do not need an earlier gate although that does "hard-counter" an early pool, but it's worse against normal builds.
Are you scouting right after 9-pylon? If so you should see the lings before he gets to you. Also, if you rally your 10th drone to the edge of your base, you can see the scouting overlord by him pretty early. The most important thing is just to make sure you get a wall-off (which you can cancel as soon as you get a zealot and 5-6 probes there. If you could attach a replay that might help me take a look at what you're doing wrong.
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Russian Federation228 Posts
Quick creep questions:
1) How long does it take for creep to vanish entirely?
2) Is that time constant or varies depending on how creep was generated (maybe something else)?
3) Do zerg units retain speed buff for some time after they go off creep or not?
Search only shows how to spread creep or abuse it -_- Thanks in advance.
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On May 18 2011 23:41 sunnata wrote:
Pair of quick creep questions:
1) How long does it take for creep to vanish entirely?
2) Is that time constant or varies depending on how that creep was generated (maybe something else)?
Search only shows how to spread creep or abuse it -_- Thanks in advance.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Creep#Creep_Generation
I believe it's the exact opposite of the creep generation from an overlord, 3 hex of creep disappears every 1 game second, so if it's creep from an overlord and it's been there long enough to form the full circle, it could take 34 in game seconds according to that, but I will say I'm not 100% sure it's the same for disappearing as generating.
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ZvP. During a hellion harass vs a fast expand with multiple queens and some but not many lings. I see a lot of players block ramp with 2 queens. Then engage with drones from natural and a queen or two. Is there a reason that people don't mineral walk the drones to your main, and delay for more units. I must be missing something here, as you lose a lot of drones trying to fight hellions with them.
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what is the best way to counter the now quite common archon in PvP? Should I keep teching to colussus or are immortals better vs them?? I tried blink stalkers and they worked out quite well till they got charge and then pushed my base. Seems like even focussing the archons have so much health and the chargelots are on you so fast.
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On May 19 2011 00:19 Tommylew wrote:
what is the best way to counter the now quite common archon in PvP? Should I keep teching to colussus or are immortals better vs them?? I tried blink stalkers and they worked out quite well till they got charge and then pushed my base. Seems like even focussing the archons have so much health and the chargelots are on you so fast.
Immortals are not the answer. Archons are not heavy armor and hence do not suffer bonus damage.
There should be large timings created by both going Templar tech and researching charge that you can either get a large colossus army or get an expansion and a ton of gateway units with light upgrades.
Blink should also be good, but use it to take a far away expansion and counter attack because while chargelots are fast in battle, they're still not very mobile.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On May 19 2011 00:19 Tommylew wrote:
what is the best way to counter the now quite common archon in PvP? Should I keep teching to colussus or are immortals better vs them?? I tried blink stalkers and they worked out quite well till they got charge and then pushed my base. Seems like even focussing the archons have so much health and the chargelots are on you so fast.
Archons require getting a twilight and either a Dark Shrine or Templar Archives. Dumping 300 vespene and waiting about 3 minutes for the tech to kick in will make your opponent pretty vulnerable during 1-base play. If he's making this transition on 2 or more bases, use the opportunity to either tech yourself or take an additional base.
Immortals will not be effective vs Archons because Archons are just Massive and Psionic.
Colossi will not be particularly effective vs Archons, but they have excellent damage output in general and will destroy the supporting units as well with splash damage.
Void Rays get a small bonus vs Archons because they are massive, but will not be dealing full damage because they are not armored. If you feel that your opponent won't be making many stalkers, Void Rays might be an option.
In general, try to attack while your opponent is teching up to Archons. Failing that, playing standard with colossi should work fine. Keep in mind the fact that FFs will not work well once the Archons are nearby.
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On May 19 2011 00:10 RexMundi wrote:
ZvP. During a hellion harass vs a fast expand with multiple queens and some but not many lings. I see a lot of players block ramp with 2 queens. Then engage with drones from natural and a queen or two. Is there a reason that people don't mineral walk the drones to your main, and delay for more units. I must be missing something here, as you lose a lot of drones trying to fight hellions with them.
You should report your protoss opponent for hacking and making hellions. However, if you're talking about zvt. I think the reason people don't mineral-walk their drones is that while they walk to the base they will walk in a straight line and be perfect targets for them. However, none of this seems ideal, I normally try to zone my ramp to my main with a queen and spine and engage other parts with a second queen and some small amount of zerglings, sometimes using drones (not on attack-move) to block space and prevent hellions from moving.
Edit: typo
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In PVT how do I stop Stim/PDD timing pushs?
Each time they engage in a battle with me they lay down a PDD (Point defense drone) and It makes all my stalkers useless, But I'm forced to make stalkers because he usually has about 2 cloak banshees waiting for me too. And when I target the PDD (if I can actually find it) I usually lose the battle anyways because my stalkers are getting destroyed by marauders.
My army composition when they rush me is usually (If I scout this build) 6-7 zealots, 6-8 stalkers, 1 Collosi, and 3 sentrys. And my 2nd Collosi usually pops out right when they attack me.
Thanks!
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On May 19 2011 08:32 ePAttack wrote:
In PVT how do I stop Stim/PDD timing pushs?
Each time they engage in a battle with me they lay down a PDD (Point defense drone) and It makes all my stalkers useless, But I'm forced to make stalkers because he usually has about 2 cloak banshees waiting for me too. And when I target the PDD (if I can actually find it) I usually lose the battle anyways because my stalkers are getting destroyed by marauders.
My army composition when they rush me is usually (If I scout this build) 6-7 zealots, 6-8 stalkers, 1 Collosi, and 3 sentrys. And my 2nd Collosi usually pops out right when they attack me.
Thanks!
If your opponent is doing a timing push with Stim and PDD, you have a few options. PDD reduces the effectiveness of stalkers, which already struggle against marauders. You may want to consider keeping your stalker count relatively low. If he opens with early banshee harass, and is continuing to mass banshees and ravens, a small number of phoenixes are effective against both. Zealots and Sentries can both ignore PDD when attacking.
You can try to force stims and PDDs out of the terran player by engaging him in the open field near a cliff using your stalkers if you have blink. Every stim or PDD you can force out of him is less you have to deal with by the time you reach his base.
If you keep the same composition of 6-7 zealots, 6-8 stalkers, 1 colossus and 1 sentry, you will have great difficulty against bio attacks because 1 sentry will not produce enough forcefields to defend your natural. Mostly, I'd recommend getting more sentries and teching more slowly. Colossi are a big investment, especially if you're getting lances; 2 colossi with thermal lances could be 6 sentries and a butt ton of zealots. Forcefield is maddeningly effective against bio armies and will either prevent kiting (if you have many zealots) or prevent him from getting his entire army into range (if you have many stalkers). It sounds like this timing attack is hitting you when you're sitting on 2 bases and gas-starved from rushing colossi before taking your third. Consider holding off on the tech when you sense the 2-base timing attack coming.
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On May 19 2011 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 08:32 ePAttack wrote:
In PVT how do I stop Stim/PDD timing pushs?
Each time they engage in a battle with me they lay down a PDD (Point defense drone) and It makes all my stalkers useless, But I'm forced to make stalkers because he usually has about 2 cloak banshees waiting for me too. And when I target the PDD (if I can actually find it) I usually lose the battle anyways because my stalkers are getting destroyed by marauders.
My army composition when they rush me is usually (If I scout this build) 6-7 zealots, 6-8 stalkers, 1 Collosi, and 3 sentrys. And my 2nd Collosi usually pops out right when they attack me.
Thanks! If your opponent is doing a timing push with Stim and PDD, you have a few options. PDD reduces the effectiveness of stalkers, which already struggle against marauders. You may want to consider keeping your stalker count relatively low. If he opens with early banshee harass, and is continuing to mass banshees and ravens, a small number of phoenixes are effective against both. Zealots and Sentries can both ignore PDD when attacking. You can try to force stims and PDDs out of the terran player by engaging him in the open field near a cliff using your stalkers if you have blink. Every stim or PDD you can force out of him is less you have to deal with by the time you reach his base. If you keep the same composition of 6-7 zealots, 6-8 stalkers, 1 colossus and 1 sentry, you will have great difficulty against bio attacks because 1 sentry will not produce enough forcefields to defend your natural. Mostly, I'd recommend getting more sentries and teching more slowly. Colossi are a big investment, especially if you're getting lances; 2 colossi with thermal lances could be 6 sentries and a butt ton of zealots. Forcefield is maddeningly effective against bio armies and will either prevent kiting (if you have many zealots) or prevent him from getting his entire army into range (if you have many stalkers). It sounds like this timing attack is hitting you when you're sitting on 2 bases and gas-starved from rushing colossi before taking your third. Consider holding off on the tech when you sense the 2-base timing attack coming.
The only problem is even if I win the BIO battle I still lose vs Air with the sentry zealot combo.
Phoenix might be a good choice but they usually have cloaking for the banshess so getting Dectection might be a bit of a problem.
I'm not saying this strategy is impossible to stop, but it feels like in order for me to win against this rush I have to be microing close to perfectly. While the Terran player just has to stim and lay down a PDD.
Thanks for the harassing tips though! I'm gonna try and implement that next time I see this build.
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What is the proper response in ZvT for 14gas/14pool vs. 11/11 2rax?
For example:
14gas
14pool
drone scout after pool to determine if T went 2rax (if you get there and both are done already on a ~30s rush distance spawn then it's an 11/11 2rax)
21hatch like normal, but pump lings, pull 6-8 drones, flank with lings
Notes: don't let the bunker complete as you cannot afford to fight it off economically after going 14/14 and pulling drones.
I'm not sure what the proper response is, please help!
EDIT: 14/14 is supposedly safer than hatch first for fighting off the initial bunker rush, but why exactly? I feel that Terran can just wait a little longer and still scale fine vs. your earlier lings (vs. later for hatch first) and still force you to pull drones if they decide to commit to the attack (moving out with 2-3 SCVs minimum, 4-5 marines vs. 14/14).
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EPT
