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So, as a low level player I am mastering the 4gate, there's my question.
So I hit them with my massive early game timing push, and say it fails, alot of times if their forces are low, I'll regenerate a second wave and hit. Ok say that fails. At this point ill want to go to an expo so that I can expand into later game 2-4 base play. What is the best way, path to tech switch? What path is good to switch into so that you're getting out new teched up units quick enough to fend off the inevitable response from your oppoenent?
Thanks,
Tallbus
PS What is Team Liquid forum's opinion on early zealot pressure, it works 95% of the time for me against P
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The key is to lose as few units as possible so they you can avoid counter attacks, I usually get a robo after going 4 just for detection and maybe an immortal or 2.
Also if you expand, it may be wise to throw down a forge and get a cannon or 2 to help defend against counter attacks,
Basically keep your units alive, if you do any damage without losing many units you will be far enough ahead to secure an expo most likely.
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Early zealot pressure can be stopped easily later on if scouted, but provides good micro learning opportunities at lower levels.
I generally expand if my first 4gate push fails, and keep harassing and moving and basically make my opponent think another push is imminent and overmake his army (FF is amazing defensivly so not a huge problem for you), which often lets me retake hte economic edge. Robo is the safest switch since it provides the only detection you're going to get, but it heavily depends on what you scout.
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If you don't lose too many units in your attacks you can use your 4 gate units to keep your opponent contained for as long as possible, allowing you to secure your expo rather safely.
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4 gate is a cool little build to learn as a new player seeing how simple it is, but whatever you do, don't make it your bread and butter. It's not the best build to play an economic game with. You generally cut probes at 26 and spend all your chronoboosts on warpgate technology, at this point you're giving up a lot of economy for an earlier win.
If you want to play a more macro game, but want to stick to 4gate style of play, you could try 3 gate expand. It'll work in all matchups as long as you have a decent follow-up according to your scout.
You get to start your expansion at like 6 mins in-game time and you get a pretty decent influx of units from your 3 gates, so you can apply pressure or defend your expo.
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Traditionally a 4 gate involves a very heavy commitment which makes it tough to transition from effectively; you're probably realizing the same thing. It's strong but that's the price.
If you like the playstyle but want more late game options you can try 3 gate expand builds like the others suggested or 6 gate. 6 gate is pretty much the same thing just bigger and later. It's a little less vulnerable to cloak and burrow due to the forge and has better transition options since you fe.
You could also do a less aggressive form of a 4 gate that squeezes in a nexus somewhere along the way but if you do a traditional very aggressive 4 gate you're going to be very strong at 6-9 mins and then you're going to have a weak spell after. Depending on your opponent you might be able to use something like air vs zerg or dts vs terran/toss to make it impractical for them to attack for a couple mins until they get the stuff needed to deal with that tech. That might buy you the time you need.
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This is why the 4-gate is considered an all-in (at least against zerg). If you fail to cripple your opponent you're very far behind, as you have no expansion up.
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the only transition out of 4 gate is expanding but it has to be a 4 gate that doesn't lose all of it's units or over commit to attacking when you don't need to. Against zerg for instance, you want to apply pressure with your big amount of units, but if you see he is prepared well then you are already ahead. By zerg standards, being prepared in the early stages of the game is bad because he should be making drones. In this case, just back off and econ up. Losing a bunch of units, and re-warping hoping to kill him is not how you transition out of 4 gate, that's just forcing yourself to make the 4 gate work. If you see you are doing some decent damage to him, warp some sentries back at home while expanding, your gas will be put to work (can't say how many toss i see just have so much gas off 2 geysers on one base) and you can expand.
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I like the idea of a 3gate expand, I don't feel my micro and macro abilities have yet matured enough for a 3gate robo or something, could somone tell me what a strong tech is for an earl expand after 3gate? And how can you defend it effectively against a timing push from your opponent if you have thrown away so many minerals to both saturate it and build it.
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On January 09 2011 12:50 tallbus1 wrote:
I like the idea of a 3gate expand, I don't feel my micro and macro abilities have yet matured enough for a 3gate robo or something, could somone tell me what a strong tech is for an earl expand after 3gate? And how can you defend it effectively against a timing push from your opponent if you have thrown away so many minerals to both saturate it and build it.
4 gate is more micro-intensive than 3 gate robo. You shouldn't feel afraid to 3 gate robo because it's one of the safest builds known to Protoss. You have the 3 gates for high unit production, and you have the robo, which will help you both scout (Observer) and defend / attack (Immortal).
The matter of defending your expo depends on the type of timing push, obviously. I would suggest starting out with 3 gate robo, because not only is it solid and safe, the observer will help you learn the timings for all the different pushes you'll need to worry about. Then with your new perception on timings, you can feel safer about expanding before buildings your robotics.
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If you make good decisions and retreat when you realize your not going to win automatically then it's possible to expand and defend it with your unit advantage. If your 4gate is completely negated and you lost a lot of units its probably over for you because your army advantage is gone along with you being behind in technology and economy. If your plan for PvZ and PvT is to attack then expand a 3gate would be a better choice in my opinion. You can 4gate every PvP and get a good win ratio but don't let that stop you from trying other builds and fully experiencing that matchup.
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honestly there is not much AFTER a 4 gate unless you severely hurt them, in which case it is easy to continue the all in and kill him.....hence why there isnt really a 4gate transition
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I'm not really an expert, but when I 4gate, if it doesn't kill them, I will expand and get a robo, always get a robo for scouting/detection, if it is PvP then ill probably stick with the robo, but against terran or zerg i will tech to high templars.
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EPT
