EPThttp://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/125721-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/123876-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
[H] ZvP 4 gate defense
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/125721-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/123876-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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mappiechampion
Sweden155 Posts
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
If this is low level and the timings are off you could even just mass speedlings and flank him when his first wave hits. | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
Secondly, the timing for 4 gate tells you that, optimally, there will be 5 units at around 6:40, and 4 more units every 28 seconds after that. Keep your defensive abilities up accordingly. Thirdly, 4 gate requires pylon power to warp units in. This means that up the 7-8 minute mark, you should be looking for proxy pylons around your natural with speedlings. Okay, so for the first game. You left a proxy pylon unkilled near your natural, so Protoss could push quite easily. All I can say is that you overdroned. That can be remedied by understanding 4 gate timings. Second game, the 4 gate was executed much more efficiently. You didn't overdrone this time, but I think you engaged away from the spine crawlers too many times and you used up too many larvae on lings. Having a solid army of roaches will free up larvae to let you sneak drones in and reinforce better. Getting roach speed is also recommended because then you can morph an overseer and check up on Protoss's transition, which will usually be an expansion, but you don't want to get caught by any one base strategies. | ||
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Airfan
Germany73 Posts
Be less sloppy in the early game. Don't miss drone production after you build your pool or hatch or when you're moving your scouting drone. Don't miss building your gas and don't miss starting zergling speed with your first 100 gas. Don't miss starting your queen(s) and don't miss injects. Try creating 2 pairs of lings instead of 1. Talking the watchtowers is good but you always want to have 1 ling to poke up the ramp and always another one in front of his base incase the one used for poking dies. Otherwise you won't notice that he's moving out in time (when you see it at the towers). Don't overreact with spine crawlers, you build them way too early in the first game. Don't supply block yourself and keep an eye on your gas count, having too much unspent gas (1st game) is bad. Don't engage out of range of your spines and avoid throwing away small groups of units, especially lings (look at the units lost tab in the second game to know what I mean). | ||
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
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Darthturtle
United States718 Posts
You can't just a-move your lings and let them flop around the opponent, giving them a chance to kite you, though. You need to right click move right into and past their army, and then attack only after your surround is complete. | ||
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scythe755
United States29 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:21 LunarC wrote: First of all, know the timing of 4 gate. The warp gates always finish at around 6:30. This means that you have free reign around the map until 6:30 into the game. Use this fact to your advantage. Secondly, the timing for 4 gate tells you that, optimally, there will be 5 units at around 6:40, and 4 more units every 28 seconds after that. Keep your defensive abilities up accordingly. Thirdly, 4 gate requires pylon power to warp units in. This means that up the 7-8 minute mark, you should be looking for proxy pylons around your natural with speedlings. Okay, so for the first game. You left a proxy pylon unkilled near your natural, so Protoss could push quite easily. All I can say is that you overdroned. That can be remedied by understanding 4 gate timings. Second game, the 4 gate was executed much more efficiently. You didn't overdrone this time, but I think you engaged away from the spine crawlers too many times and you used up too many larvae on lings. Having a solid army of roaches will free up larvae to let you sneak drones in and reinforce better. Getting roach speed is also recommended because then you can morph an overseer and check up on Protoss's transition, which will usually be an expansion, but you don't want to get caught by any one base strategies. do not listen to this. the timings are completely off for units and warp gate tech (1 minute late, 1 fewer unit) if you are still searching for proxy pylon at 7-8 min mark you might as well gg the actual 4-gate hits at around 5:45 (shlowpoke wrote a nice guide on this, use search function) you need to see it ahead of time and cut drones at around 20-24, then spam speedlings you should have an advantage but it's still a micro war where you can lose | ||
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JMDj
United States454 Posts
-Sac ovi a little bit after they get their first stalker/sentry out -Have a good enough game sense to know when the push is coming and cut drone production about 30sec(game seconds) before the push comes -You can get roaches/lings or spines/lings, personally I like roaches for the counterattack potential after you hold the push -Make sure you have lings on sentries/stalkers and roaches/spines on zealots -You can bring your queens down to help fight as well but make SURE they don't die and keep larvae injecting as you micro -A nice little tactic to delay the push is to take some lings and try to run around the enemy units and snipe off the proxy pylon, even if you don't get it you'll give yourself a few extra precious seconds when he pulls back to save the pylon Really the biggest thing IMO to holding this is just knowing the timing of it and cutting drones at the correct time. | ||
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
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Twaxter
Canada190 Posts
Make spine crawlers, more if you have extra money/no larva, make sure you dont' get supply blocked and lose an overlord, keep making them. The more he delays the 4 gate, (You should check for sure that he is doing the 4 gate,sac ovies when you feel the need to), than you should get upgrade, and keep making combat units, and tech to lair only when you completely feel that you can take his army. Don't produce drones more than medium saturation on both your bases, because you are already economically ahead, (2 Zerg Bases > 1 Toss) Keep scouting, and threaten a back door when he moves out, (Have lings near his natural so when he pushes your natural, you can march into his main, giving you time and have you do some damage). When he hits you, let him attack the spine crawler, and when his units get in a perfect line, surround them with lings, and keep producing more and more. DON"T FORGET YOUR INJECTS, because I know how intense it can be, but that can lose you the game. So, you shall be forced to look away from the screen. if you he is still trying to 4 gate and its hitting 8 min in game time. you, make a roach warren, and hydra den, and push with roach speed back at him, and there is NO way he can hold it off, even if he has 6+ cannons, while you do this, you should have atleast 3 gases, and getting your third up as you push. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Gimpb
293 Posts
The second game was looking really good but you kept loosing units in really bad engagements. Even then, you still almost held it. There are a few things you can do to help against that stalker micro: - Get your lings out of your base and behind his army. This has many benefits but the big one is it gives you a surround. This means he can't micro away as much which makes your roaches and lings more effective. He also has to worry about counter attacks, defend his pylons, etc. - Spread creep so he has to come well onto the creep to attack your structures - Position an ovie in sight of his expansion, that will clue you in when he skips a production cycle to make the nexus. - Rally behind your buildings at your expansion. This way your ovies don't die easily and your units don't suicide into a large amy. - When he micros back and forth, keep your lings away and concentrate on killing zealots with your roaches. Don't engage microed stalkers with slow roaches unless the stalkers are committed and unable to retreat. - Keep roaches and queens on creep | ||
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Mimik
United States21 Posts
On January 09 2011 07:08 scythe755 wrote: do not listen to this. the timings are completely off for units and warp gate tech (1 minute late, 1 fewer unit) if you are still searching for proxy pylon at 7-8 min mark you might as well gg the actual 4-gate hits at around 5:45 (shlowpoke wrote a nice guide on this, use search function) you need to see it ahead of time and cut drones at around 20-24, then spam speedlings you should have an advantage but it's still a micro war where you can lose This is a good post hes right actually i just made a post about 4 gate that unfortunately was closed because i didn't read guidelines =D but anyways heres evidence that backs him up and something i have not seen till today. Early 4 gate push Example2 Example3 I am around 1500 diamond on ladder but i have been practicing a ton of zvp lately and not laddering....id like to think im at least 2k zvp but stuff like this makes me feel like i should be bronze! | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:21 LunarC wrote: First of all, know the timing of 4 gate. The warp gates always finish at around 6:30. This means that you have free reign around the map until 6:30 into the game. Use this fact to your advantage. Secondly, the timing for 4 gate tells you that, optimally, there will be 5 units at around 6:40, and 4 more units every 28 seconds after that. Keep your defensive abilities up accordingly. Wait, what on earth is this? What kind of 4gates do you play against? http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7509/myfastest4gate.jpg 5 units at 6:40? Maybe if you have no idea how the build works or something. (Btw 4gate wont hit at 5:45 unless they didn't scout at all or they skipped some of the early units for a weaker attack[like you might see 1 Zealot 4 Stalkers at 5:45 but it's super weak]) | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On January 09 2011 20:02 Shikyo wrote: Wait, what on earth is this? What kind of 4gates do you play against? http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7509/myfastest4gate.jpg 5 units at 6:40? Maybe if you have no idea how the build works or something. (Btw 4gate wont hit at 5:45 unless they didn't scout at all or they skipped some of the early units for a weaker attack[like you might see 1 Zealot 4 Stalkers at 5:45 but it's super weak]) ^^ This build can catch some people, but is generally a PvP 4 gate build. 5:45 warpgate finishes with a cycle of 4 stalkers. Putting you at 6 stalkers and 1 zealot for your hit at ~6mins. Reinforce with 4 zealots. This build is super all in, and really meant for PvP (no sentries, which are so key in PvZ/T) On Xel Naga: 1. Spread your creep. It was difficult as you were engaging his army a lot, but you had a creep tumor at the top of your ramp that was never extended. Had you had more creep, you'd have more warning for his incoming army, and you'd be more powerful when defending. 2. Drop your third spine back by your mineral line. There's no reason to drop your new spine crawler close to your enemy. In fact, that spine was closer to being attacked than the completed ones. Once it finishes, move it up and defend it's rooting. No reason to throw away your minerals like that. 3. Engage with a speedling ball. Your unit responses were correct, but so many times you threw away your zerglings. Your opponent went heavy on the stalkers, meaning you will win with zerglings if you surround. Consider that 4 stalkers 1 shot a single zergling. This means if you send 12 lings at his stalkers, and he kites for 3 shots before you even hit him, you are down to 9 lings against 4 stalkers. Not a fight you will win. Rather than throwing away groups of 6-8 lings. Use them to force retreats, as your roaches kill off zealots, until you mass about 20-30 lings with your roaches. THEN try to flank and surround and crush his push. Remember, once you killed that proxy, his reinforcements take a long time to get there. And once you've killed his zealots, your zerglings exponentially increase in effectiveness. 4. When you killed his proxy pylon, you should not push out with all your lings. Your advantage you had from defending his initial push was thrown away when you sent out all your zerglings, in two small groups, to die separately. Had they been all grouped together, the small army of stalkers you engage would have all died- thus negating your loss. As Artosis keeps saying in the GSL, when you are ahead, you don't need to end the game, just keep getting MORE ahead. You were on two base for a while, he was still on 1 from 4 gating. You were way ahead once you defended. On metalopolis: 1. If you're going to hold with just zerglings against such a zealot heavy composition, keep them behind your spines, and let your spine crawlers + transfusion take down the number of zealots, so that your lings have a fighting chance. 2. When you pushed in with your roaches after holding, you knew at that point he was expanding. You need to sacrifice an overlord while expanding to find out what tech he decides to go to next. He can not stay on 2 base warp gate, you will destroy him. Had you sent your nearby overlord in, you'd have seen the robotics, known he'd have immortals, and respond with less roaches. 3. Though you lost your hatch and therefore obviously couldn't spend all your resources, irrelevant of what you have banked, you can not go mutas on one base. Not on metal cross positions. You won't have enough mutas, and given the distance to harass you will be so late and do minimal damage at best. That could've been better spent on a macro hatch, a second expo, hydra den, evo chamber and +1 carapace, burrow, etc. - Any tech you could afford (though generally hydra's on one-base are also not good.) 4. On maps where the proxy pylon locations are pretty standard (by your third on metal/steppes. gold base on LT, etc), you should place an overlord near there. The probe sent to build the proxy went by your overlord, it's hard to stay on top of those things, but if you see that you need to follow that probe and find it. That pylon being dropped is essential to the timing of the 4gate. If you are prepared for it, and even delay the proxy, you can sometimes get them supply blocked, not to mention you get more time for more units. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
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