Hi guys! I am about a 2700 diamond (was 2800 but I keep losing to terrans -.-) and I need your help with responses in the ZvT matchup. The thing that puzzles me is that I don't really know how to respond to certain terran builds even if I scout it. I'm pretty good at ZvP, I can recognize a 3 gate expand easily, a 4-warpgate, 2-gate, 3-gate robo, etc. and I know how to respond to everything, but when it comes to ZvT I don't really know what to do. I just kind of wing-it. And I've been losing so many ZvT games its a little frustrating.

Could somebody make a little chart or table (or link me to one if there is already) of a list of terran early-game builds and their counters? (I've read the Art of ZvT but it wasn't that helpful because it just said to do zergling/baneling for every single mass ground attack... I don't even know if their going mass ground unless I sacrifice zerglings every so often and see what their army looks like at the front of their wall in.. But sometimes that doesn't work because they can just hide half of it)

Sorry if my post is a little confusing.. I just want to see a table or something which shows how to counter terran builds... For example in zerglegends ZvP guide I think there was a chart which showed all the different options of a protoss and how to respond.. for example, stargate, queen/spore -> hydra.. nexus first, roach poke -> macro mode.. 4-gate, 24 drones no lair roach/ling, etc etc.

Again, sorry if my post is confusing or crappy. A mod can delete this if theres already another thread like this or if this is unnecessary. Hopefully not..

Thanks

Juice!

Belgium295 Posts

January 08 2011 10:36 GMT

SieGe’s ZvT guide:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176625

emc

United States3088 Posts

January 08 2011 11:06 GMT

you pretty much go muta/ling/bling every time, the only exception is if your opponent is using a lot of mech in which case, muta/roach/ling (sometimes banelings as well)is your answer. Mutas are absolutely essential for ZvT because they deal with all forms of harass and counters everything the terran has, including thors with magic box, except marines.

Early game can be broken down to either 14 hatch or 15 gas 14 pool (or 14 gas 15 pool) with ling speed for map control. 15g14p is pretty strong against 2 rax but only if they attack you. This build is the safest I've used but can work against you as well since you may end up behind on worker count if your opponent does not attack with 2 rax, however you can use the map control to drone up, just make sure you scout with overlords and ling pokes up his ramp when your opponent turtles to see what his next step is. Generally he can only do a few things off one base: Expand, Banshees, Tanks or marine scv all-in. Banshees usually come with the price tag of a few hellions. Expansion with bio means an attack will come. Expansion with Tanks means you are generally safe for awhile.

14 hatch boils down to getting 2 queens up at each hatch and a spine at natural. This is susceptible to marine scv all-ins, but is rather strong against normal safe builds your opponent will do. It can be decent against 1/1/1 if you prepare for banshees well which isn't hard with double queen production. If your opponent opens 2 rax but doesn't all-in and only fakes aggression, then they are expanding. Either put pressure while droning or expand again.

If your opponent is on one base you simply need to watch for these things by poking up ramps and sac'ing overlords:

Hellion harass? Your opponent will probably be going banshee with either 1 or 2 Starport(s). 1 usually means banshee with cloak and expansion, 2 usually means mass banshee with no cloak, if cloak is involved it's more likely to be an all-in. Baneling busts counter this. If you don't have AA up, putting pressure on your opponent will make them go home and allow you time to set up. Your end game should be mutas to control the air. If you see he wants to also control the air, get infestors and try to keep up muta production if possible. Don't waste gas on hydras.

2 rax? They will have to put pressure on you in the beginning. If they see an expansion they will marine scv all-in, if not they will simply pressure you to stop committing to drone production. If you defend the first attack and have an expansion up, they will either expand themselves or go 4 rax for a definite all-in with stim and combat shields. The counter to this is ling/bling, if you get a lair up in time, burrow is also a great counter to this. Most pros when seeing 2 rax, like to get bling speed before spire which is wise. If he ends up not attacking, don't waste your banelings, keep them around and expand. The best timing for terran is right after your banelings all died because you need to morph them with lings plus make more lings to replace those. Mutas later in the game are simply the best, your goal is to snipe things and make him waste stims.

Hellions with blue flame? Either mech play or hellion marauder combination, also watch for drops blue flame drops. You can preemptively place spines at new expansions because you will definitely run into blue flame hellions later in the game. You must counter the blue flame hellions with roaches and queens but don't over do it on roaches, that's what they want because they have factories ready to make siege tanks. You want to do your best and hold off the harass while going for mutas, you stop hellion harass and you stop any transition into marauders and can also prevent all your units dying from tanks.

against a 2 base or more terran, you kind of just want to scout his unit comp and his production facilities to see what he's making and counter it or try your best. Hope I helped.

justindab0mb

United States213 Posts

January 09 2011 00:10 GMT

On January 08 2011 20:06 emc wrote:
you pretty much go muta/ling/bling every time, the only exception is if your opponent is using a lot of mech in which case, muta/roach/ling (sometimes banelings as well)is your answer. Mutas are absolutely essential for ZvT because they deal with all forms of harass and counters everything the terran has, including thors with magic box, except marines.

Early game can be broken down to either 14 hatch or 15 gas 14 pool (or 14 gas 15 pool) with ling speed for map control. 15g14p is pretty strong against 2 rax but only if they attack you. This build is the safest I've used but can work against you as well since you may end up behind on worker count if your opponent does not attack with 2 rax, however you can use the map control to drone up, just make sure you scout with overlords and ling pokes up his ramp when your opponent turtles to see what his next step is. Generally he can only do a few things off one base: Expand, Banshees, Tanks or marine scv all-in. Banshees usually come with the price tag of a few hellions. Expansion with bio means an attack will come. Expansion with Tanks means you are generally safe for awhile.

14 hatch boils down to getting 2 queens up at each hatch and a spine at natural. This is susceptible to marine scv all-ins, but is rather strong against normal safe builds your opponent will do. It can be decent against 1/1/1 if you prepare for banshees well which isn't hard with double queen production. If your opponent opens 2 rax but doesn't all-in and only fakes aggression, then they are expanding. Either put pressure while droning or expand again.

If your opponent is on one base you simply need to watch for these things by poking up ramps and sac'ing overlords:

Hellion harass? Your opponent will probably be going banshee with either 1 or 2 Starport(s). 1 usually means banshee with cloak and expansion, 2 usually means mass banshee with no cloak, if cloak is involved it's more likely to be an all-in. Baneling busts counter this. If you don't have AA up, putting pressure on your opponent will make them go home and allow you time to set up. Your end game should be mutas to control the air. If you see he wants to also control the air, get infestors and try to keep up muta production if possible. Don't waste gas on hydras.

2 rax? They will have to put pressure on you in the beginning. If they see an expansion they will marine scv all-in, if not they will simply pressure you to stop committing to drone production. If you defend the first attack and have an expansion up, they will either expand themselves or go 4 rax for a definite all-in with stim and combat shields. The counter to this is ling/bling, if you get a lair up in time, burrow is also a great counter to this. Most pros when seeing 2 rax, like to get bling speed before spire which is wise. If he ends up not attacking, don't waste your banelings, keep them around and expand. The best timing for terran is right after your banelings all died because you need to morph them with lings plus make more lings to replace those. Mutas later in the game are simply the best, your goal is to snipe things and make him waste stims.

Hellions with blue flame? Either mech play or hellion marauder combination, also watch for drops blue flame drops. You can preemptively place spines at new expansions because you will definitely run into blue flame hellions later in the game. You must counter the blue flame hellions with roaches and queens but don't over do it on roaches, that's what they want because they have factories ready to make siege tanks. You want to do your best and hold off the harass while going for mutas, you stop hellion harass and you stop any transition into marauders and can also prevent all your units dying from tanks.

against a 2 base or more terran, you kind of just want to scout his unit comp and his production facilities to see what he's making and counter it or try your best. Hope I helped.

thanks this helps a lot!