EPT[D] NsP Genius's Safe PvT Build - Page 2
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AnAlbumCover
United States138 Posts
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:10 Kogut wrote: Welcome to using sentries on a ramp. And yes, this is a build that allows you to poke at the Terran, rather than just sit tight like the 1GFE Sarcasm detector. I rarely use sentries for the ramp unless I'm against protoss or 7rr because I'm the usual aggressor, not a child afraid of the dark. Why be aggressive and macro like a noob when you can push slightly AND macro very decently. You can be aggressive with 1 GFE. I can take down anyone under low-diamond because they can't handle a probe + zealot + stalker. Yes, I have tried. And yes, I have replays. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On January 08 2011 09:22 iChau wrote: In my opinion, 1 Gate FE is more suitable for larger maps like Shakuras Plateau. It also works in close positions if he is teching or expanding as well (for some reason o.o). Can you have a section that compares this to 1 Gate FE? The pressure allows you to expand earlier, too, unlike in this build you have to place double gates + robo before Nexus. How well does this build works in close position? I know it might no be successful, due to the small rush distance, but I at least want to know how well it will work since you have a lot of defensive units. EDIT: Hmm, sentries are the reason, eh? Don't they do bad against MM, though, as you need zealot/sentry to destroy MM balls, with a sprinkle of stalkers due to their low DPS, despite guardian shield and forcefield. So 1 Gate FE is personally for less aggressive people. Never thought of that. ^_^ EDIT2: Oh, I see now, woops. Basically, forcefield, move back, attack with your whole army while half of their army cannot due to the fact that you have no melee units for him to shoot at. That's pretty cool. My point was that you skip the zeal for early second gas to get earlier sentries so they get energy faster. You don't mass them up like u would vs zerg but if terran breaks your Fe you're going to need them | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
Should I just cancel the Nex and go back up my ramp? | ||
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shaunnn
Ireland1230 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:10 shaunnn wrote: Mouz manas 2 gate robo is very different to the norm, he gets 3 zealots and 1 stalkers before the warp tech finishs and doesnt get second gas till 30ish food Mana's version is better vs different tank pushes but worse vs bio builds. Also, he just started using this build; he used to get earlier gas aka the standard 2 gate robo. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
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zyglrox
United States1168 Posts
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
It isn't good for aggression at all. If you make more than 2 sentries and opponent is thor rushing, it used to be that you were screwed. IDK about the new patch; zealots could've become effective enough to hold the attack, but I have my doubts about it. There is a small issue with banshees going around the map, so when your obs reaches terran base they're attacking your mineral lines; depends on robo timing/map. Some variations of this build skip stalker and just make sentries, that allows for faster nexus. If terran has expanded off of 1rax or 2rax, and you opt for colossi, there is a window of vulnerability right before the first colossi comes out. If terran was aggressive enough before that, making you waste FFs, the stim attack can possibly kill or damage you. Even if you start the bay with next 200 gas after obs. As far as chrono boosts go, I am not sure I remember correctly; but you chrono probes only 2 or 3 times, then chrono warpgate 1 or 2 times; and chrono obs. If you chrono probes earlier I think you end up requiring a pylon earlier and that delays a critical building. Opt for having warpgate finish with 2nd gateway and still have a chrono boost for the observer. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Really keen on the idea of adjusting an expo to fit an allin. The Marine/RepairThor/Banshee (with variable number of scvs and either a Raven or Siege Tank w/ Siege Mode) push, when detected by this fast obs, could lead to a nexus cancel compared to 1gate FE where my obs shows this allin too late to stop the Nexus. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
In my experience it seems like it is only safe to grab an early or earlyish expo if the terran does so himself. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
I also found that against banshee rushes, this was hard, not because i couldnt detect, but because i didnt have many stalkers since i focused more on sentries....and this was hard esp trying to cover 2 bases. | ||
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
On January 14 2011 09:16 AirbladeOrange wrote: I have not had success with this build against most terrans. They tend to be aggressive with early marines and marauders. Sentries can forcefield the ramp but the expo is not safe at all. In my experience it seems like it is only safe to grab an early or earlyish expo if the terran does so himself. That's the idea...you drop the nexus and if your observer scouts the terran doing something you can't hold off you cancel it. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:12 4kmonk wrote: Mana's version is better vs different tank pushes but worse vs bio builds. Also, he just started using this build; he used to get earlier gas aka the standard 2 gate robo. Still he likes to get 3 zealots and 1 stalker (order: zealot/stalker/zealot/zealot) and warp 2 sentries after warp-tech has finished. I asked him about this recently and he said that he wants the gas saved up for early robotics + early sentry. | ||
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zdarr
France375 Posts
On January 10 2011 05:44 iChau wrote: You can be aggressive with 1 GFE. I can take down anyone under low-diamond because they can't handle a probe + zealot + stalker. Yes, I have tried. And yes, I have replays. Actually, it would be nice if you uploaded such replays... | ||
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shenzu88
48 Posts
On January 10 2011 05:44 iChau wrote: Sarcasm detector. I rarely use sentries for the ramp unless I'm against protoss or 7rr because I'm the usual aggressor, not a child afraid of the dark. Why be aggressive and macro like a noob when you can push slightly AND macro very decently. You can be aggressive with 1 GFE. I can take down anyone under low-diamond because they can't handle a probe + zealot + stalker. Yes, I have tried. And yes, I have replays. You can't be aggresive with 1Gate FE, you can only poke. That poke shows if he's bio or teching, if he's teching you can harass a bit. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On January 28 2011 01:25 Raggydiaper wrote: You can't be aggresive with 1Gate FE, you can only poke. That poke shows if he's bio or teching, if he's teching you can harass a bit. Depends who you're playing and what they're doing. I used to do big damage or end games straight up with 1 gateway, but it's common now and people at my level prepare for it. He was saying he can beat people under low-diamond with a 1 gate attack. If they're teching without a bunker, I have no doubt that he can. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On January 13 2011 14:09 OriginalBeast wrote: notice that you can get bunker rushed before that build order unfolds and suddenly becomes less safe, the safest thing to do is to have good scouting and know what to open to do well against what he is opening. Yes, you need to react to cheese or lose. That's kind of how cheese works. Even then you could probably sit on one base for a little bit and break the contain with immortals as you get a robo super fast with this build. | ||
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