On January 18 2011 03:17 Dente wrote: Well okay then, it's viable lads, but make sure protoss doesn't build stalkers + collo or immortals with zealots!
hellion/thor/siege tank is extremely effective against these builds in a straight up fight. Thors take and deal an incredible amount of ground damage. Siege tanks also do lots of damage, and its splash. Hellions + blue flame do absurd amounts of damage to zealots. I would be interested to see someone do some unit tests with a mass mech army vs various mass protoss armies to see how they match up. I think that a mech army would do very well against most unit compositions in a head on battle, however as its been pointed out many many times it's very immobile so positioning and scouting is everything.
whell in a unit tester a maxed sieged tank army could beat almost any unit compositions except maybe pure immortals but that doesnt realy help you since you wont have a lot of those perfect condition fights in a real game and the protoss will try to abuse your immobility
On January 18 2011 03:52 giuocob wrote: Are you guys telling Jinro he doesn't know how to play the game or something?
I am telling that jinro his mech worked because 1) mc wasted units on his bunkers, 2) mc never abused the tank immobility, 3) mc never exanded like a zerg.
On January 18 2011 03:52 giuocob wrote: Are you guys telling Jinro he doesn't know how to play the game or something?
I am telling that jinro his mech worked because 1) mc wasted units on his bunkers, 2) mc never abused the tank immobility, 3) mc never exanded like a zerg.
jinro says he beats players that usualy beat him using mech so....
Biggest problem with Mech is that if you lose your army or don't absolutley crush the opposing player you're pretty much done. Takes forever to rebuild a mech army even if you're keeping up with macro and que'ing units while you fight/lose them and reinforcing your army is pretty much not going to happen. In the time it takes your mech units to travel up to your opponents base you've already ethier crushed his army or lost your entire army.
Mech will never be solid. Cause if it was solid, you could do it every match vP on every single map, regardless of positions. The games Jinro played vs MC, are extremely isolated. Close positions LT with a contain against the protoss. MC recovering from attempting a 4gate and chooses stargate tech with carriers and ends up getting countered with double starport reactor vikings.
On January 18 2011 05:07 Talack wrote: Biggest problem with Mech is that if you lose your army or don't absolutley crush the opposing player you're pretty much done. Takes forever to rebuild a mech army even if you're keeping up with macro and que'ing units while you fight/lose them and reinforcing your army is pretty much not going to happen. In the time it takes your mech units to travel up to your opponents base you've already ethier crushed his army or lost your entire army.
Extremely frustrating strat to use.
I don't understand this...if you've got 4 factories, one reactored for hellions you can get a frontline of tanks supporting hellion/marauders is short order.
Reactored starport churns out vikings quickly as well.
On January 18 2011 05:07 Talack wrote: Biggest problem with Mech is that if you lose your army or don't absolutley crush the opposing player you're pretty much done. Takes forever to rebuild a mech army even if you're keeping up with macro and que'ing units while you fight/lose them and reinforcing your army is pretty much not going to happen. In the time it takes your mech units to travel up to your opponents base you've already ethier crushed his army or lost your entire army.
Extremely frustrating strat to use.
I don't understand this...if you've got 4 factories, one reactored for hellions you can get a frontline of tanks supporting hellion/marauders is short order.
Reactored starport churns out vikings quickly as well.
you need a critical # of tank for them to be effective, if you trade armies and you rebuild 4 tanks arent going to help you, you need like 10 tanks for them to start ripping stuff appart, and the toss can just rebuild a gateway army much faster
The TSL final game on LT is a good example of the bigger issue with mech: mobility. Head on, P can at best trade even, but colosi / blink are more mobile. Maps matter, a continuing series :-)
On January 18 2011 05:15 itsMAHVELbaybee wrote: Mech will never be solid. Cause if it was solid, you could do it every match vP on every single map, regardless of positions. The games Jinro played vs MC, are extremely isolated. Close positions LT with a contain against the protoss. MC recovering from attempting a 4gate and chooses stargate tech with carriers and ends up getting countered with double starport reactor vikings.
Do you realize that sc is a strategy game and not some lineair stuff?
I really like this against protoss. However, is the 1rax fe necessary? I find that its hard to hold off 4gate (at least for me) until I can get tanks out. Would 3rax into mech or even 2rax into mech be viable? Maybe I just need to practice getting enough marines for 3 bunkers off of 1rax FE to defend against 4gate. :s
Thanks for this thread :D I've been using this strat but with a different opening. Instead of 1 rax with a reactor, i use the 2 rax fe build to be safer against 4 gates and aggressive robo strats. I've been playing diamonds in the mid 2000's and the I only really lose when im too lazy/lack patience to siege hop.
People complain about mobility but are we looking at this from the wrong angle. Banshees provide amazing mobility and great dps in large numbers. When meching and containing etc why not use the power of the contain to get up banshees for harass & added dps that way you can harass and put out fires away from the front line.
On January 18 2011 12:40 ShAdoW101 wrote: Thanks for this thread :D I've been using this strat but with a different opening. Instead of 1 rax with a reactor, i use the 2 rax fe build to be safer against 4 gates and aggressive robo strats. I've been playing diamonds in the mid 2000's and the I only really lose when im too lazy/lack patience to siege hop.
2 rax fe would be an awesome opener, and any type of 1/1/1 or fast tech to tanks before getting your expansion would be awesome too. If the protoss fast expands himself a good opening would be to go for an MMThor timing push, expand and then drop your factories and go ghostmech or regular mech with more marines than usual. It's strong because you already got the armory for upgrades and a safe expansion.
Hey haters! how about adding this strat to your arsenal rather than shooting down?? Obviously Jinro finds it effective in certain situations as we do not see him meching every single game. My advice is to learn the strat and hide it up your sleeve so when it will come in handy you can use it =)
p.s when games on Steppes of War drag out vP, i always mech. Barely any flanks on that map
On January 19 2011 02:01 Garmer wrote: there is only one problem with mech build, :It is much harder to execute than bioball/viking, trust me, for the rest i think is a viable build.
its a lot easier to win in the late game with a 200/200 mech army than with a 200 bio army
On December 30 2010 17:38 giuocob wrote: I'm trying to think of all the things that would give this trouble as a strategy. I'm going to ignore any early rush/all-in strategies, because the early game can be changed to accommodate those, but the end goal of tank+hellion+marine is the same.
Chargelots - these only become a big problem when they get all up in your tanks' face, but honestly, I don't think they're that big of a threat if you can block them with your hellions. A big ball of 10+ blue flame hellions with marines and tanks behind it is going to kill infinity zealots.
Void rays - anything more than a smattering of void rays would give this trouble, so it would need to be scouted. Once scouted, extra marines and/or vikings would be enough to shut this down.
Carriers - pretty much the same as vrs.
High templar - Hellion snipes! Also ghosts if you feel you really need it.
Immortals: These guys actually kinda suck once the tank count starts hitting the double digits. Without impeccable micro, the immortals are all going to lose their shields at once to splash, and then get rolled.
I'd guess the optimal protoss composition to deal with this would be chargelots, templar, and void rays, maybe a few colossi if the tech already existed. But does this actually have a hard counter? If it does, I can't think of one.
Believe it or not DTs of all things were giving me loads of trouble despite building turrets and here's why. Protoss would push and lose a ton of units but realize in the battle the turrets around my tanks would sometimes get taken out and he'd warp in loads of dts and send them all over the place. got really frustrating to deal with. but 90% of the times i lost doing mech strats was being killed off early or the VR tech switch cuz i got lazy with my scouting which is nothing but a noob mistake.
You could work in one or two ravens for detection of DTs..
Below is a direct copy of the Thread above that i made so ignore the OP formating. _____________________________________ THIS IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE VIABILITY OF THIS UNIT COMP. NOT BUILD ORDER/ OPENER/ STYLE
Me like many other Terrans are sick of going mass bio. So i've been working on BioMech and found out that Marine Tank Viking with Heavy Upgrades works great. Jinro has also demonstrated recently the power of PureMech with Heavy Harass. __________________________________ My Replays- I prefer a 1 rax FE throwing down 2 more raxes and then 2 Factories(used to get 3 but cut it out for faster upgrades) and getting fast upgrades. Then adding a 4th rax and Reactors. Later adding Vikings
Currently I'm working on adding Harass and looking for timing windows. Hope these inspire someone. This is my style and currently works for me. It may not work for everyone. And i'm still improving my game by adding harass. But right now my Macro is my strongest aspect and i'm abusing that with my build. __________________________________
What do you think? Personally i find these compositions viable. Yes its harder then Bio, but i believe it is necessary to learn in order to compete with Protoss L8 game. This is not to say one can't open 3rax/2rax bio and transition into Mech/BioMech. You don't have to open straight Mech.
EPT
