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Scary and underused Immortal micro - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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squintz
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada217 Posts
December 25 2010 08:34 GMT
#41
Oh god, video brings back bad memories of immortal timing pushes in beta....
stalking.d00m
Profile Joined December 2010
213 Posts
December 25 2010 08:58 GMT
#42
I saw that replay just last night and have been thinking about it since and today there is a thread about it .
Yeah, that micro is amazing and it works like magic against crawlers. Before they can hit you ZOOM your immortal is bank in transport. Though this can be done with any unit with good range and dps like hydra but immortal are the best for it. But I don't think it can be normally pulled off. Remember, NexSickness was fighting this battle on his term. He had whole army of opponent contained in the main and has only to deal with only a couple of roaches from nydus. In normal game the opponent will have hydra and/or mutas so it not that big of a deal, Think about it terrans can do blue flame drop in opponent base. One medivac carries 4 BF Heli and can take out entire min. line in ten seconds but it almost never happens as opponents have stalkers/hydra positioned.
So this game is more of an exception and I don't think this is going to happen in a competitive game. Well, rarely perhaps. But not more than that.
<3 to all fellow gamers.
Pandu1986
Profile Joined June 2010
72 Posts
December 25 2010 09:12 GMT
#43
This micro is similar to what i saw QXC do earlier in a game against tt1. Kept lifting and dropping his marauders and managed to hold off 2 immortals and about 5-6 stalkers with about 7 or 8 marauders.

I believe all races can do it, though if its actually useful or not I dont know. As most said, protoss seemed to have this won already at the 10:52 mark.
Deleted User 39582
Profile Joined August 2008
317 Posts
December 25 2010 10:42 GMT
#44
this is pretty sick, but I could totally see it getting nerfed knowing blizzard O.o
TheRealzz
Profile Joined November 2010
150 Posts
December 25 2010 11:16 GMT
#45
Yeah agreed immortals are scary; my mate had 2 ... Only 2 i was pushing hard he micro'd just those 2 with a few stalkers and demolished my roach / Hydra combo ... But i was like in the doors man cmon lol ... Very scary indeed
One-base play is aggression ?
gr8ape
Profile Joined July 2008
Canada302 Posts
December 25 2010 18:58 GMT
#46
whats cool is to use the wp to place immortals behind an enemies protoss army, effectively dealing with low-ish colossus count
Blyadischa
Profile Joined April 2010
419 Posts
December 25 2010 19:10 GMT
#47
Don't understand why this is causing the "OMG SC2 MICRO OMG/SKILL CEILING SKILL CEILING etc." stupidity in this thread.

This has been done in brood war and SC2 before, and in BW, shuttle + reaver micro was a standard protoss build.

This skill ceiling is just as low as it was before. The 10 more apm it takes to do this doesn't bridge the gap between the skill level of BW and the skill level of SC2, and also the immortal is not as much of a game turning unit as the reaver was, and thus this will result in sadly, nothing.
gr8ape
Profile Joined July 2008
Canada302 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 19:20:46
December 25 2010 19:16 GMT
#48
On December 26 2010 04:10 Blyadischa wrote:
Don't understand why this is causing the "OMG SC2 MICRO OMG/SKILL CEILING SKILL CEILING etc." stupidity in this thread.

This has been done in brood war and SC2 before, and in BW, shuttle + reaver micro was a standard protoss build.

This skill ceiling is just as low as it was before. The 10 more apm it takes to do this doesn't bridge the gap between the skill level of BW and the skill level of SC2, and also the immortal is not as much of a game turning unit as the reaver was, and thus this will result in sadly, nothing.


Lets just specify some things here:

Brood war requires more technical skill.

More apm dedicated to actually playing the game. NOT DOING MORE ELABORATED STRATEGIES. Simply making units, using buildings, and using units. What does this effect have? It means no one can be good before a certain technical mastery of the game. Theyre not "good" at the game, they dont have complex strategies, deceptive tactics or anything like that, they are simply ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.

In sc2, it is easier to play the game. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE ACTUAL PLAYER WITH BETTER STRATEGIES, MINDGAMES AND TACTICS WILL WIN because technical mastery has been removed toned down. Nonetheless, technical mastery in sc2 will be rewarding as with every game.
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
December 25 2010 19:29 GMT
#49
On December 26 2010 04:16 gr8ape wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2010 04:10 Blyadischa wrote:
Don't understand why this is causing the "OMG SC2 MICRO OMG/SKILL CEILING SKILL CEILING etc." stupidity in this thread.

This has been done in brood war and SC2 before, and in BW, shuttle + reaver micro was a standard protoss build.

This skill ceiling is just as low as it was before. The 10 more apm it takes to do this doesn't bridge the gap between the skill level of BW and the skill level of SC2, and also the immortal is not as much of a game turning unit as the reaver was, and thus this will result in sadly, nothing.


Lets just specify some things here:

Brood war requires more technical skill.

More apm dedicated to actually playing the game. NOT DOING MORE ELABORATED STRATEGIES. Simply making units, using buildings, and using units. What does this effect have? It means no one can be good before a certain technical mastery of the game. Theyre not "good" at the game, they dont have complex strategies, deceptive tactics or anything like that, they are simply ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.

In sc2, it is easier to play the game. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE ACTUAL PLAYER WITH BETTER STRATEGIES, MINDGAMES AND TACTICS WILL WIN because technical mastery has been removed toned down. Nonetheless, technical mastery in sc2 will be rewarding as with every game.


I disagree. Very rarely can on the fly strategies win you the game. In brood war, eventually everyone discovered the most standard build orders that were standard for a reason. This game is not dynamic enough to reward creative and clever playing.

I really wish it were the case that the most strategic players would win the most, but most tournaments so far haven't displayed that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Faze.
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada285 Posts
December 25 2010 19:32 GMT
#50
Micro'ing immortal prism is a good talent toi have.
D:
Twaxter
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada190 Posts
December 25 2010 19:40 GMT
#51
THAT WAS SICK
Lose and Learn
gr8ape
Profile Joined July 2008
Canada302 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 19:45:37
December 25 2010 19:44 GMT
#52
On December 26 2010 04:29 Xanbatou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2010 04:16 gr8ape wrote:
On December 26 2010 04:10 Blyadischa wrote:
Don't understand why this is causing the "OMG SC2 MICRO OMG/SKILL CEILING SKILL CEILING etc." stupidity in this thread.

This has been done in brood war and SC2 before, and in BW, shuttle + reaver micro was a standard protoss build.

This skill ceiling is just as low as it was before. The 10 more apm it takes to do this doesn't bridge the gap between the skill level of BW and the skill level of SC2, and also the immortal is not as much of a game turning unit as the reaver was, and thus this will result in sadly, nothing.


Lets just specify some things here:

Brood war requires more technical skill.

More apm dedicated to actually playing the game. NOT DOING MORE ELABORATED STRATEGIES. Simply making units, using buildings, and using units. What does this effect have? It means no one can be good before a certain technical mastery of the game. Theyre not "good" at the game, they dont have complex strategies, deceptive tactics or anything like that, they are simply ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.

In sc2, it is easier to play the game. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE ACTUAL PLAYER WITH BETTER STRATEGIES, MINDGAMES AND TACTICS WILL WIN because technical mastery has been removed toned down. Nonetheless, technical mastery in sc2 will be rewarding as with every game.


I disagree. Very rarely can on the fly strategies win you the game. In brood war, eventually everyone discovered the most standard build orders that were standard for a reason. This game is not dynamic enough to reward creative and clever playing.

I really wish it were the case that the most strategic players would win the most, but most tournaments so far haven't displayed that. Correct me if I'm wrong.


cant really correct you since im not in tune with bw metagame
however what youre saying applies to sc2, maybe because its new, or maybe because its the essence of the game, but i dont know that
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
December 25 2010 19:54 GMT
#53
well played....
the UMP says YER OUT
Evoshadow
Profile Joined December 2010
United States88 Posts
December 25 2010 20:07 GMT
#54
The scary thing is that the immortals attack is instant while the spine crawler has a a projectile and he was actually able to COMPLETELY negate damage from the crawler, crawlers do have a pretty slow projectile though it would be interesting to see if you could use it vs a photon cannon or alternately units like stalkers, probably not roaches because you have to be within 4 range at that point for it to matter
ScythedBlade
Profile Joined May 2010
308 Posts
December 25 2010 20:13 GMT
#55
That micro was pretty good. (Not "sick" as some people try to do it).

Aka, blink stalker micro has 8 frames against roaches where you can take 0 damage. So if you can pre-empt which roaches are focus firing your stalkers, you can just basically save yourself like 80 hp from blink micro.

The immortal micro on the other hand isn't that bad (or impossible), but doing it screws up macroing for me =X.
Blyadischa
Profile Joined April 2010
419 Posts
December 25 2010 20:16 GMT
#56
On December 26 2010 04:16 gr8ape wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2010 04:10 Blyadischa wrote:
Don't understand why this is causing the "OMG SC2 MICRO OMG/SKILL CEILING SKILL CEILING etc." stupidity in this thread.

This has been done in brood war and SC2 before, and in BW, shuttle + reaver micro was a standard protoss build.

This skill ceiling is just as low as it was before. The 10 more apm it takes to do this doesn't bridge the gap between the skill level of BW and the skill level of SC2, and also the immortal is not as much of a game turning unit as the reaver was, and thus this will result in sadly, nothing.


Lets just specify some things here:

Brood war requires more technical skill.

More apm dedicated to actually playing the game. NOT DOING MORE ELABORATED STRATEGIES. Simply making units, using buildings, and using units. What does this effect have? It means no one can be good before a certain technical mastery of the game. Theyre not "good" at the game, they dont have complex strategies, deceptive tactics or anything like that, they are simply ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.

In sc2, it is easier to play the game. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE ACTUAL PLAYER WITH BETTER STRATEGIES, MINDGAMES AND TACTICS WILL WIN because technical mastery has been removed toned down. Nonetheless, technical mastery in sc2 will be rewarding as with every game.


Watch a brood war game, then watch a SC2 game.

In a brood war game, there are multiple stages in one game where one player must use the timing of the matchup to assert their position over the map, then the timing of the matchup allows the other player to assert their position over the map. Then, when both players have their higher tech, they must strategically expand and attack expansions and strategically place units in the map to counter attack, catch drops, drop themselves, catch reinforcements, etc.

In SC2, it's either 70 food expansions with one player constantly attacking and either breaking the front and winning or getting denied and losing, 1 base all in vs 1 base all in, or it's fast expansions into midgame 1a's from both players to see who comes out on top. Rarely is it a long game, but if it is it's essentially just more of the same thing, more 1a's.

It's not a matter of less APM, the game is made easier by inject larva, mules, chronoboost, which make most economic damage negligible and one base all ins more potent then ever, the stupidity of some units (high templar TTTTTTTTTTTT I just won the game), and the terribleness of the map pool, where the expansion path is explicit, the attack path is explicit and the rush distances are all incredibly small compared to BW maps.

I remember watching BW Day9 dailies, where I actually learned something each time. Now I watch Day9 dailies of SC2 and just think, wow I would be miserable if I had to play BW, then switch to SC2, and had to throw away knowledge and be limited by the terribleness of the game.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
December 25 2010 20:17 GMT
#57
On December 21 2010 17:41 Zoltan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2010 17:20 Xanbatou wrote:
As a Zerg player, that sort of cannon abuse at the beginning makes me depressed. Even though the protoss epic failed with that cannon wall-in, he still ended up crippling that poor zerg player. The force fielding just made it even harder to watch.

I am so glad that they are nerfing that wall-in and making 50% more expensive to do.


That was some impressive force-fielding by NS, instant timing and perfect placement. It dosen't make me depressed, just impressed at how powerful and useful sentries still are. I feel like i haven't seen sentry micro like that since beta; good show.


You can figure placement out by opening a 1v1 with a friend / practice partner and just screw around for 15 - 20 minutes, its really not that impressive. As for sentries, the idea was really good but nothing particularly impressive about the micro itself, its just point and click.

Really clever build though, I'll give him that
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 20:19:19
December 25 2010 20:18 GMT
#58
everyone seems to think this game was amazing

im sorry to say it, but it seemed to me like during a lot of that both players played terribly

the zerg decisionmaking especially seemed really bad. maybe this was like the first cannon block the zerg's ever faced or something?



yeah i just made a lot of enemies didn't i? well w/e
Psykologen
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway16 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 20:41:37
December 25 2010 20:40 GMT
#59
I think he should have placed the Nydus just outside his base, somewhere close to the creep, also have had Hydras to deal serious damage.

Although, I think the micro was Warp Prism micro was amazing! Made the game entertaining. But I also have to agree a bit with Travis.
I play Zerg. I am a Diamond player. I play on EU.
gr8ape
Profile Joined July 2008
Canada302 Posts
December 25 2010 21:53 GMT
#60
On December 26 2010 05:16 Blyadischa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2010 04:16 gr8ape wrote:
On December 26 2010 04:10 Blyadischa wrote:
Don't understand why this is causing the "OMG SC2 MICRO OMG/SKILL CEILING SKILL CEILING etc." stupidity in this thread.

This has been done in brood war and SC2 before, and in BW, shuttle + reaver micro was a standard protoss build.

This skill ceiling is just as low as it was before. The 10 more apm it takes to do this doesn't bridge the gap between the skill level of BW and the skill level of SC2, and also the immortal is not as much of a game turning unit as the reaver was, and thus this will result in sadly, nothing.


Lets just specify some things here:

Brood war requires more technical skill.

More apm dedicated to actually playing the game. NOT DOING MORE ELABORATED STRATEGIES. Simply making units, using buildings, and using units. What does this effect have? It means no one can be good before a certain technical mastery of the game. Theyre not "good" at the game, they dont have complex strategies, deceptive tactics or anything like that, they are simply ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.

In sc2, it is easier to play the game. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE ACTUAL PLAYER WITH BETTER STRATEGIES, MINDGAMES AND TACTICS WILL WIN because technical mastery has been removed toned down. Nonetheless, technical mastery in sc2 will be rewarding as with every game.


Watch a brood war game, then watch a SC2 game.

In a brood war game, there are multiple stages in one game where one player must use the timing of the matchup to assert their position over the map, then the timing of the matchup allows the other player to assert their position over the map. Then, when both players have their higher tech, they must strategically expand and attack expansions and strategically place units in the map to counter attack, catch drops, drop themselves, catch reinforcements, etc.

In SC2, it's either 70 food expansions with one player constantly attacking and either breaking the front and winning or getting denied and losing, 1 base all in vs 1 base all in, or it's fast expansions into midgame 1a's from both players to see who comes out on top. Rarely is it a long game, but if it is it's essentially just more of the same thing, more 1a's.

It's not a matter of less APM, the game is made easier by inject larva, mules, chronoboost, which make most economic damage negligible and one base all ins more potent then ever, the stupidity of some units (high templar TTTTTTTTTTTT I just won the game), and the terribleness of the map pool, where the expansion path is explicit, the attack path is explicit and the rush distances are all incredibly small compared to BW maps.

I remember watching BW Day9 dailies, where I actually learned something each time. Now I watch Day9 dailies of SC2 and just think, wow I would be miserable if I had to play BW, then switch to SC2, and had to throw away knowledge and be limited by the terribleness of the game.


Your post is so biased its not even funny. Im not gonna say anything except that bw is 10 years old with dozens of patches along the way and sc2 is a couple months old with no expansion.

Also try to watch some good sc2 games. Youre probably watching shitty games on purpose so you can just QQ
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