EPT[G] How to stop a 4 gate as Zerg - Page 3
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rapier7
United States46 Posts
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On January 23 2011 22:58 GrassEater wrote: Protoss player from bronze? You could have double expand and hold it. Seriously, why do people insist on posting replays of "holding" a 4gate when the attack happens a full MINUTE slower than it's supposed to? 60 seconds is a really long time in this game. | ||
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lvlashimaro
United States91 Posts
On February 19 2011 17:18 Skrag wrote: Seriously, why do people insist on posting replays of "holding" a 4gate when the attack happens a full MINUTE slower than it's supposed to? 60 seconds is a really long time in this game. Hm.. While this probably sounds like trash since I'm silver league, I think it's safe to say that the zerg player is also a full minute slower than he's supposed to be. While this wasn't the best timed 4 gate ever, the errors that led to the delay are surely equivalent to the delays that the zerg player had while preparing for it. Thus, I think it pretty much balances out. Also, this may have been his first time "holding off" a 4-gate. I'd be happy, and put due credit to the thread that helped me overcome it too. O_O.. Yeah... I guess this video doesn't help a large majority of people on this forum, but it helped me. Call me noob but his video helped me because I saw it via a video rather reading text. It's not the best demonstration, but as a visual learner, it's better than nothing. | ||
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najreteip
Belgium4158 Posts
I'm gold league, and when I get 4gated I notice that very often protoss takes ALL of his units to attack, including the zealot at his ramp. I've actually been able to hold a 4gate a couple of times now by planting 2 spines at my natural, defending with roaches and taking a bunch(~10) lings into his main and just killing all his probes while he's attacking, then allyou'd have to do is defend the units he has since he won't be able to make any more I don't know if this is really viable for higher level players, but I did come across an interesting replay of Dimaga vs nani, where nani 4gates and has nothing defending his base. edit: link to te replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/144684-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns | ||
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regulator_mk
United States127 Posts
On April 06 2011 05:41 najreteip wrote: I actually have a question I'd like to pose to high level zergs. I'm gold league, and when I get 4gated I notice that very often protoss takes ALL of his units to attack, including the zealot at his ramp. I've actually been able to hold a 4gate a couple of times now by planting 2 spines at my natural, defending with roaches and taking a bunch(~10) lings into his main and just killing all his probes while he's attacking, then allyou'd have to do is defend the units he has since he won't be able to make any more I don't know if this is really viable for higher level players, but I did come across an interesting replay of Dimaga vs nani, where nani 4gates and has nothing defending his base. edit: link to te replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/144684-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns Because of how warpgates work, he can just warp a couple zealots into his base to defend if needed. | ||
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
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najreteip
Belgium4158 Posts
On April 06 2011 05:56 regulator_mk wrote: Because of how warpgates work, he can just warp a couple zealots into his base to defend if needed. True but you can time the runby with the protoss warp-in, can't you? Then he'd have to wait a full cycle before defending | ||
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
and it's worth trying to run those speedlings up his ramp to kill probes. It's not worth investing your defense into his ramp being open. | ||
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
It's worth building some speedlings in order to go kill their pylon. Other than that i don't recommend it. One of the priorities against any 4gate should be to pick off their sentries, so they can't forcefield the ramp. You can't necessarily do that with speedlings. Also you need to target fire units in a 4gate, speedlings spread their damage around which isn't what you want. But having said that, speedlings can be useful if they don't make enough zealots and you already have roaches. Also someone mentioned +1 armor i'm not sure what the purpose of that would be. Speedlings will still take 3 shots from zealots and 4 from stalkers. | ||
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Hyphenate
Sweden4 Posts
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VictorX
United States773 Posts
I believe that (after scouting) the best solution is, as posted before, spines and speedlings. The more important decision is to cut drones at 20-22. If you overdrone against a proper 4gate (which cuts probes at 20-23), then it is a death sentence. Once scouted, all larva must be committed to units. Pure speedling can hold handsomely, however a slightly delayed 4gate (so their ball of units is bigger) can prove difficult for speedlings, so the latter stages of the rush require roaches or spines to hold effectively. The most important part is spotting the 4gate, which includes glimpsing at whether the cyber core is being chrono boosted, being aware of the Protoss gas timings, and scouting at 5:00 for extra warpgates and then his front at 5:30 for gateways being warped into warpgates. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 06 2011 06:23 najreteip wrote: True but you can time the runby with the protoss warp-in, can't you? Then he'd have to wait a full cycle before defending A good Protoss would finish off his wall with a pylon after moving out. | ||
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ImBakedBro
United States26 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Laids
United Kingdom596 Posts
Maps with wide chokes(xelnaga, metal and delta) These naturals are not defended as efficiently with spine crawlers. Although spines are definitely still useful in these situations be wary that with improper spine placement, the protoss can simply walk around your spines. I like to use evo chambers on open naturals to protect my spine somewhat and funnel zealots into a choke. I find that using a more ling heavy army with some roaches works better, as my roaches movement is limited due to the evo chambers, this is Silver :> Does anyone in higher divisions have suggestions for evo chamber placement for defense and if it's actually worth it? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 09 2011 23:29 ImBakedBro wrote: i feel like there should be a thread called "how to do the same build every game as protoss from bronze league to grandmaster" im pretty sure this takes skills the sad thing is, that this is nearly true. You can at least hit mid-diamond with only being able to play 4gate and if it doesnt fail to terrible just follow it up with another 1base cheese or all-in... what I consider even sader is that a lot of protoss tell you how good they are because they can perform 3different 4gate timings and (this is an actual qoute from a guy I lost to some months ago on the ladder in diamond and goes something like this): RandomDiamondProtoss wrote: it's not so easy because you have to build the right units and if you lose your units you cannot expand | ||
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caracarn
Sweden141 Posts
On April 09 2011 23:30 Laids wrote: Maps with wide chokes(xelnaga, metal and delta) These naturals are not defended as efficiently with spine crawlers. Although spines are definitely still useful in these situations be wary that with improper spine placement, the protoss can simply walk around your spines. I like to use evo chambers on open naturals to protect my spine somewhat and funnel zealots into a choke. I find that using a more ling heavy army with some roaches works better, as my roaches movement is limited due to the evo chambers, this is Silver :> Does anyone in higher divisions have suggestions for evo chamber placement for defense and if it's actually worth it? Yes i think as a zerg player we need to think more and more sim city out of the few buildings we are making. And one of the best buildings to build sim city with is the evo. chamber. It is cheap and will be able to transition the anything. I think 2 or 3 evo. chambers is the standard in the future. But imo if u want to create a narrow choke i recommend throwing down at least 2 spines. Just because it is so easy to forfcefield your army for protoss in a narrow choke. And spines is great vs forcefield. And the great thing is that the more spines you throw down the more drones can you make or queens to heal the spines. Even though i dont think that in the GM-league the static defence might not be the best. | ||
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Snackattack
United States15 Posts
Idk, im not a 3k+ player but I've never really had trouble with 4 gate unless its un-scouted or you are not preparing for it. | ||
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