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On December 27 2010 15:17 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 15:10 methematics wrote:
thank god in 2.0 scv attack priority is going to change so this thor mass repair will end.
This build will still be strong. The scv's will tank a fair bit of damage still, and they will get some repairing. This build is the BANE of my existence. I've started going Vrs against it though, and it works decently.
It could only get weaker, as if you want to hit the thor you can just manual target it. Now at least you can hit SCVs...
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This build is super strong if the toss player isnt that great of a micro player, it is easily countered by heavy zealot with stalker support. U have to micro the zealots and stalkers to kill the scvs. If you just attack ground, the zealots just go in circles and its gg...took me like a second before realizing this. But yeah lotsa zealots, 2 for each of his scvs and stalkers to "try to pick off this and that" and u pretty much lol at this strat as toss. 2 gate robo would beat this; although the robo is kinda useless coz if u scout into this, the immortal and collosus, as stated by the op are well...very very expensive cannon fodders.
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This build is really devastating. I made was doing similar builds since I really wanted to use Thors in TvP. So I tried some MM and Thor, worked somewhat good but turned out to be bad. Then I tried a Marines/Thor timing, it was better than the previous, but it was just 1 Thor without the Vehicle Plating. Ultimately, I think this build is much better, been using it against Toss the whole day and it's no loss so far. However I think the 2nd gas should be much earlier so that you can poke in as soon as possible, not needing to wait for the 250mm Cannons.
Nonetheless, great build. I'll cry if this doesn't work anymore post patch.
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ive been practising this rush a lot lately, im a gold 2v2 player, it failed miserably there, mostly because i play with a random partner. but I ventured off, for my very first time as a bronze player 1v1. Today alone i am on a 22 game winning streak with it in bronze, beating terran, toss as well as zerg. It even dummies the 8 roach rush, it was pretty damn close, but it still beats it. No game has gone past the 12 minute mark, I wonder when I will get promoted to silver.
Thanks for this strat its been a lot of fun, and i have been harassed a lot as well, being calld newbie and making fun of my strat, its actually pretty funny. Mostly from zerg players doing ling rushes and relying on them or roach rushes. Oh well a win is a win.
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I've been using this strategy pretty effectively in some of my TvP games, but I was wondering....after the changes to the SCV targeting priority in the new patch, is this build still going to be effective?
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On January 11 2011 17:51 janenba56 wrote:
I've been using this strategy pretty effectively in some of my TvP games, but I was wondering....after the changes to the SCV targeting priority in the new patch, is this build still going to be effective?
effective yes, but it will lose strength obviously. u gotta keep the scvs behind the thors. and ofc VRs will be an even better counter to the thors now with the dam buff.
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You'll just have to wait and see. No one is omniscient, we can't tell how it'll play out. I imagine it'll be much easier to stop, though.
Right now the key to stopping this is being very heavy on zealots. Then you can throw in whatever you like on top of that, but anything more than 2 sentries is probably too many. Stalkers do good damage to marines, and you can snipe SCVs from certain positions.
Getting a good surround is necessary though, so more zealots=good. Sometimes it's possible to interfere with the repairing SCVs if you have enough zealots and a proper position.
I feel like this push stops robo builds dead cold, but if you go for VRs it's like 50/50 and DTs/HTs are almost a guaranteed win.
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Well regarding dts, and hallucination as viable counters, any terran using this build ought to save one scan in the off chance that his opponent does go dt or gets hallucinated immortals/collosi
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This build has a lot of weakness. One of the most glaring ones is how weak it is attempting to push up a ramp. If the toss player engages on the ramp, especially with sentries, you can completely separate the thors+scv's from the marines on maps like delta quadrant.
It also loses outright to any 1 base play which is the optimal choice after scouting this build, and lets face it, its an extremely obvious rush to anybody who has decent scouting. 1 base immortals with 2 phoenix to lift the immortals to cancel cannons completely destroys this.
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wmd221: thors break FF. So sentries aren't that useful.
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On November 17 2010 08:51 QuantumTheory wrote:
Socke stomped a similar build on Shakuras.
Had his expo up, had to sac it tho.
Edit: Give you quick rundown on the game. Opponent pushed with 1 Thor mixed with scvs/marines with strike cannon, Socke held but the 2nd thor was almost at his base. Socke defended that and went on to win. Trick was to attack them when the thors are halfway up the ramp, I think that helps with less scvs being able to repair or something. Anyway the T had an awkward angle and Socke was meant to get the surround with probuu but failed, still won though.
It's kinda sad that you have to beat this by using some "trick" which boils down to a bug in the game.
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On January 11 2011 18:11 Ziken wrote:
Well regarding dts, and hallucination as viable counters, any terran using this build ought to save one scan in the off chance that his opponent does go dt or gets hallucinated immortals/collosi
Usually you'll have 3-4 DTs. You also have several zealots and at least one stalker, since it's necessary in a DT build to deny scouting.
Basically one DT is for your opponent's base. Then you'll have one more at the time of the push, and you can warp in 2 as the attack hits. You should be able to stop the push because the DTs will one shot the SCVs and marines, allowing you to mop up what's left with your other units.
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On January 11 2011 18:20 wmd221 wrote:
This build has a lot of weakness. One of the most glaring ones is how weak it is attempting to push up a ramp. If the toss player engages on the ramp, especially with sentries, you can completely separate the thors+scv's from the marines on maps like delta quadrant.
It also loses outright to any 1 base play which is the optimal choice after scouting this build, and lets face it, its an extremely obvious rush to anybody who has decent scouting. 1 base immortals with 2 phoenix to lift the immortals to cancel cannons completely destroys this.
um in order to do that you (obviously) have to get both a stargate and a robo. so that cuts into your gateway unit count, and both thors and marine kill phoenixes pretty dam well, also marines and strike cannons kills immortals well
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This is stopable by ANY build the toss makes as long as you have 2 sentries and are skilled enought to split the scvs from the thor when you hit.
The idea in this situation is to BUY TIME to get what you want: a counter while he starts to move out just to make him go back could do the trick.
BTW: Saving 1-2 chronoboosts when you dont know whats going on is same as saving larvas when you dont know what a terran is doing, weird but effective.
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On January 11 2011 20:47 iloveav wrote:
This is stopable by ANY build the toss makes as long as you have 2 sentries and are skilled enought to split the scvs from the thor when you hit.
The idea in this situation is to BUY TIME to get what you want: a counter while he starts to move out just to make him go back could do the trick.
BTW: Saving 1-2 chronoboosts when you dont know whats going on is same as saving larvas when you dont know what a terran is doing, weird but effective.
the SCV's would be next to the thor at the time of the FFs right? So therefore the FFs would be directly next to the thor. And since thors are massive they can crush FFs. So the FFs would delay the push what 5 seconds?
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IM bummed, hahah i have been relying on this agianst toss and zerg for the last week.... 1.2 has basically thrown this strat in the garbage..... I lost twice today, which is rare against toss, who just had nothing but a few stalkers and zzealots..... then again against a zerg with mass amounts of speedlings. usually I walk right through those compositions.... They tear up the scvs , then thors crumple down shortly after.
Such a good strat,,, it will be missed. Thank you to the orginator of this post.... you done me good!
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Wow this build is very powerful so far I have won 2 games using it. To counter DT I think you could actually pretty much just build an eng bay and 1 turret at entrance with a few marines left behind. Build the eng bay after 2nd thor is out and while u expand and push. This will nullify DT's going into ur base but i reserved 50 energy every time i pushed for scan during the push to help counter any DT to try and kill the thors.
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On January 11 2011 20:53 valheru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 20:47 iloveav wrote:
This is stopable by ANY build the toss makes as long as you have 2 sentries and are skilled enought to split the scvs from the thor when you hit.
The idea in this situation is to BUY TIME to get what you want: a counter while he starts to move out just to make him go back could do the trick.
BTW: Saving 1-2 chronoboosts when you dont know whats going on is same as saving larvas when you dont know what a terran is doing, weird but effective.
the SCV's would be next to the thor at the time of the FFs right? So therefore the FFs would be directly next to the thor. And since thors are massive they can crush FFs. So the FFs would delay the push what 5 seconds?
Try to draw this in your head:
lol protoss army
ramp thor scv ramp
ramp scv scv ramp
ramp ForceF ramp
ramp scv scv ramp
your second/third thor could be at anywhere, but it's most likely to be either above the ramp, or below the ramp where it's going to be moving in circle because it will be blocked by marine/scvs, while the thors at top gets crushed because of the lack of repairing scvs. attempting to move it down the ramp to stomp the ff will also get it killed because you need to move scvs that's blocking as well.
I am not implying this is an easy thing to do as protoss(you place your ff 1 matrix off and it will get crushed by thor), but getting it done allows you to stop the rush right there without any immortals or vrs at all.
anyway RIP thor/marine rush, best tvp strat in NA server with just about everyone from plat to upper diamond doing 1gate FE in pvt.
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I'm still using this build after patch and the effectiveness has barely decreased, winning about 60% of the games with the initial push and close to 100% vs fast-expanding protoss
Thanks a ton for sharing it Evoli
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is anyone else still rocking out this strat?
I still do it from time to time, i dont find it just a "toss" only strat. I have had great success using this against every race. With a tiny bit of tweaking when a zerg goes ling rush and/or bangs.
this works decently well against roach rushes, but its a pretty damn close battle everytime it does occure. out of the 2-3 thors you send, you may end up with 1 thor and like 1-3 rines at the end.
the very few times I have lost with this strat, were times i got caught on the ramp, so I either try to bait them down, most will come down to check out whats goin on.
Other than a few mistakes of crappy micro/lack of expeirnce, getting caught on the ramp is definatly the weakness to this strat big time. and banglings whos can follow up with roaches, have beat this as well. Well at least they beat me anyways.
But I find this a very good all race strat not just a toss strat. It still works fairly well. I have not really noticed much of a difference, mind you im a plat player, im sure anyone above plat have a way to just destroy and devistate this strat by now.
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EPT
