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On December 19 2010 16:47 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 16:21 TurK-FX wrote:On December 18 2010 22:08 stroggos wrote:
my standard buildorder of 1gate, 1 robo expand then 2 more gateways fairs quite well against this build. you can get out 3 immortals by the time they attack, along with a large stalker count. A big enough unit count to snipe the thors through repair.
It is tested and there is no way you can get more immortal than thors by that time. Even if you get, you will be light on gateway units and marines will walk over you. And yes, i didnt know if thors could walk over FF. I think those force fields screwed up my SCVs, so i couldnt repair thors. Next time i will try to back up little bit to break those FFs. i am positive that i can get 3 immortals out by the time 2 thors get to my base at least on 90% of maps/positions
Yea you cant get it if just focus on getting it, but then you are screwed if you opponent go for banshee&marine heavy. there is noway you can find out what he is doing until you get your observer out and check him. And as stated in OP first post, high diamond player exactly knew what was coming they tried everything to stop it and they couldnt stop it. So as long as it is executed properly you wont be able to stop it.
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I've had alot of fun with this build after I switched to random 
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I just played a game where a player did this to me. Luckily like people have been posting, i scouted it and was able to get a good FF behind his thors so his scv's couldn't repair. Althought he did not stun my units and i have had trouble with that in the past.
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Thanks for the build. I've got a pretty good win percentage using it. And like you, when it does fail its usually because I did something incorrectly. Also, using this strategy really causes people to rage a lot. :D
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I've been trying to practice not using this build admittedly in preparation for the new patch... A shame too since its so powerful 
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What happens in the new patch that will hurt this build?
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scvs will have the same threat priority as the unity they are repairing.
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Yesterday, I verified that this build is incredibly strong against lower ranked players. 4-Gaters are getting a taste of their own medicine. And yes, it usually invokes a quit without gg from most players.
Strike-Cannon completely evaporates an Immortal.
By the way, I'm not sure whether the attack priority change for repairing scvs will have that huge an impact here.
DTs are a good counter, other than that, the Protoss needs to be very sharp defending this or she or he'll get roflstomped. By the time you're at the enemy's base, your 3rd thor has finished, and you can usually safely expand.
I'm not sure whether defending the position above the ramp is the best thing for Protoss here, maybe withdraw inwards and add your probes to the defense?
In general: I recently started to incorporate a couple of SCVs into my army when I'm going Mech or bio with air support. A) SCVs are kind of a nice meat shield confusing your opponent's units , and B) repair is an amazing ability that should be exploited more. I don't know why I didn't start doing this sooner for units other than Thors.
Also, I think Thors have a place in early to mid-game TvP because of the oh-so-annoying force-fields that prevent ANY kind of pressure. Since the medivac nerf, drops have become much harder against Protoss.
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I haven't had a chance to try this variation of this build yet but I was wondering if anyone had tried pushing out after the first thor finishes and rallying the second thor to the first? Would it be a quicker variation of the original build or would the Protoss player be too strong at that point? I believe you could actually push out at about 7:45 with the one thor and several marines.
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this build is a beast, but it will be useless after patch when u can actually kill those fkn repairing SCVs
also, i've lost to this as zerg, so it may not be only a TvP build
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this build is okay, you should practice more thoroughly on players who have a better understanding of PvT. not saying these players were bad, but they had alot of timings off, and no one should ever 1 base 2-3 gate colossus  , there wasn't much scouting either *i guess they knew what you were doing anyways* but a 4gate will do good if you have enough stalkers and a couple of sentries *guardian shield*, zealots are really just cannon fodder they die before they get to deal damage* if you see 10 scvs, protoss should pull 10 probes, you get the same food count in stalkers *or close to it with your probes* you can go on par or even beat this. i also think that if a gas steal happens, and then it does force terran to skip\ delay 250MM cannons that the build will be weaker since a 4 gate will have more reinforcements
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i wonder if we could get to the same effect after the patch by simply sending more scvs with the attack. its pretty all-in-ish anyway, if the attack doesnt do serious dam, u lose. the time he takes to kill off the repairing scvs is time he is taking dam and not attacking ur army. the real dam dealers are immortals anyway, and if u keep the scvs in the background, there should be no way for the fat, slow, lowrange immortals to get in position to attack them anyway.
it will be weaker after the patch, but i dont think the strategy will lose viability just because of the change in the scv priority. the bigger problem imho is the dam buff for vrs against thors....
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On December 24 2010 11:53 Subversion wrote:
this build is a beast, but it will be useless after patch when u can actually kill those fkn repairing SCVs
also, i've lost to this as zerg, so it may not be only a TvP build
The issue with this vs zerg is banelings force your marines to shoot and scoot, kill SCVs very easily and roaches are easily massed.
Sling/Bling/Roach is standard vs biomech. If the zerg tries to tech to spire too fast it could work as they may not have enough gas for enough blings with speed but other than that it "should" be a lot easier for a zerg to fend this off than protoss.
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In preparation for the upcoming patch, I've been trying a few things. I'm only a silver league player, never lost a game against protoss but found the build weakish against zerg and terran. By making a slight change to it, I've managed to get 10 wins a in a row, mostly against zerg.
I've been pushing around the 9 minute mark (bit slow, I know) but setting only 3-4 scvs on to each thor and keeping the marines in the middle. When faced by lings/banes/zealots/marines, the scvs (since there are only a few) clump up behind the thors so your opponent has to either run around to attack them, leaving time for your thors/marines to dish out damage, or stick to attacking the thors.
Benefits to fewer scvs:
Less damage to your economy if the push fails
Since attack priority is the same, the units will hit the thor first unless micromanaged around the back.
Banelings must either push through the thors and go for the marines or be wasted against the thors. Making this build much more viable against zerg.
No chance of getting blocked by FF since the thors are in the front.
Allows you to swap out some scvs for a second rax for bonus marines.
Since more scvs are getting resources, you can reinforce/rebuild your army much easier if your initial push is rebuffed.
Downsides:
Less units repairing the thors, which can make the initial push weaker.
Less scvs soaking damage when the patch changes
Also, for all the people commenting on having to base swap with some players doing this build, just have your third thor stay in the base and micro some scvs to it to fight off their army. You can do some serious damage to it while destroying their base.
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8 SCVs on 1 thor is the same as 4 SCVs on each thor if you have 2 thors... And right now this mostly works because those 8 SCVs surround the thor that is being targeted.
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So i'm wondering what the succcess of this build is agaisnt the 3 gate 1 stargate oGsMC Push i feel like he would only have 1 thor out and aobut 5 marines and with proper micro i should kill him (watchign thors kill void rays makes me Lol)
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I don't buy the stealing gas as working. The majority of the times I've won with this build I ended up not even using 250mm cannon. The only time I used it is if there are callossass. Immortals always go down hard to the marines.
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On November 18 2010 06:45 RiotSpectre wrote:
Reading this makes me wonder why I barely ever see terrans using strike cannons against a toss who masses collossi - I feel like there would be some serious late game implications.
It's awful, mass colossus start doing well vs mass thor because of range, and there are typically other units in front. I've tried it many a times.
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thank god in 2.0 scv attack priority is going to change so this thor mass repair will end.
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On December 27 2010 15:10 methematics wrote:
thank god in 2.0 scv attack priority is going to change so this thor mass repair will end.
This build will still be strong. The scv's will tank a fair bit of damage still, and they will get some repairing.
This build is the BANE of my existence. I've started going Vrs against it though, and it works decently.
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EPT
