I've played this guy 3x on the ladder and he did the exact same build all 3 times the thor push. This ccan be held off with a FE its a little tricky sometimes you have to sac the expo. but basically if you have the same number of Immortals as thors you an come out on top with ff behind the thor while they go up the ramp and just focus down the thors quickly.

Just one quick observation though: FE close to thors can be tricky as they are massive and shatters FE's on contact.

HonIE

Ireland2 Posts

November 25 2010 11:54 GMT

#262

On November 25 2010 20:11 klillas wrote:
Just one quick observation though: FE close to thors can be tricky as they are massive and shatters FE's on contact.

FE - Fast Expand
FF - Force Field

But On a note to Proto_Protoss' comment, the one thing most people do not realize with this build is that is a an FE crusher, while you expand yourself.

Also, I never engage (read, go up the ramp) without a scan and if I see that P goes for the bottleneck defense, I simply don't push, or then position only 1 thor on ramp, 2 next to ramp and if the Protoss engages with immortals, they are toast.

I dunno really if P is doing all they can as I'm only 1,4k Terran, but I also make mistakes.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

November 25 2010 11:57 GMT

#263

The easiest response to this is just to chrono immortals like a mad men and get stalker, immortal, zealot with just 1 sentry. Focus all the stalkers and immortals on the thors 1 by 1 and if you have enough you should be able to kill them fast enough so that repair doesn't really get into effect. A few zealots + probes should be going after the marines at the same time.
The problem of course is getting the immortals in time so what I always do vs terran is to scout for a tech lab rax or not. If not you get the robo up asap and get a observer and a immortal. Chrono out the obs and fly it over immediately, making sure to have some map control so that if he comes in with a cloaked banshee you see it coming. If you see the thor build immediately nonstop chrono out immortals and you should have 3 by the time 2 come knocking at your door.
Because immortals on chrono build quite a bit faster then thors the best way for terran to perform this is to actually push with 1 thor. It's much harder to get 2 immortals vs 1 thor then it is to get 3 or even 4 vs 2 thors.

Using a phoenix to lift your immortal can work i guess but i think its just unneccesary tricky. Marines and the thor can take down the phoenix really fast and if you didn't do it exactly right the thor will just 250mm again. Your immortal is afterall not shooting while its being lifted so it doesnt really matter if the thor is not shooting either at the same time especially if you invested so much in a do nothing unit like the phoenix in this scenario.

visselli

Canada76 Posts

November 26 2010 05:47 GMT

#264

lol theres a super simple way to beat this...4 gate and sit at a xelnaga as u will have map control due to him not having very many units early on....when he moves out just flank behind and base trade, u will kill half the terran base by the time he gets to yours.

samson6

Australia6 Posts

November 26 2010 06:04 GMT

#265

On November 26 2010 14:47 visselli wrote:
lol theres a super simple way to beat this...4 gate and sit at a xelnaga as u will have map control due to him not having very many units early on....when he moves out just flank behind and base trade, u will kill half the terran base by the time he gets to yours.

Except that as soon as he sees you heading into his base, he can fly off all of his buildings and kill any Stargates you have in your base as soon as he gets there, then you can't possibly win the base-off...

gwombat

Singapore40 Posts

November 26 2010 06:07 GMT

#266

wouldn't a 2gate zealot push crush this really hard?

Severedevil

United States4838 Posts

November 26 2010 06:24 GMT

#267

On November 26 2010 15:07 gwombat wrote:
wouldn't a 2gate zealot push crush this really hard?

I assume the Terran would wall in. I'm not saying you're wrong, but what advantage do you seek to gain?

elkram

United States221 Posts

November 26 2010 06:30 GMT

#268

OMG easiest counter to this is 2 Gate Stargate, which will crush the 2 thor push completely when it comes to you, if you made VRs, which I usually do. If you just macro with 2 Gate Stargate, then there is no need to micro against this Unit Composition b/c the VRs plus zealots plus stalkers plus sentries means you will just roll him over with your units. After that it is GG for terran because Toss expands, makes a robo + robo bay, makes collossi and VRs off 2 base, pushes your front and byebye terran.

Reason I say easiest is because it doesn't require chrono-boosting gateways or stagates, nor microing units, nor actually know that it is coming. If you just do this BO: 2 gate stargate, you auto-win against this.

galzohar

Israel100 Posts

November 26 2010 16:48 GMT

#269

What do you guys do when he just camps his ramp? It seems like even if I did kill some of his units, if he's waiting up there with stalkers I just can't move up no matter what. Am I supposed to just expand in this case or is there a good way to micro better and successfully move up the ramp? I'm afraid that if he camps his ramp and I camp below his ramp and expand, by the time I can gain an advantage with the expansion he will have enough units to drive me out, and due to how slow my thors and marines are compared to his stalkers I can't really run away either. What gives?

AllNight

Netherlands86 Posts

November 26 2010 16:53 GMT

#270

Maybe transition into standard biomech? Get a few more rax, an expo and stim and instead of thors get tanks out of your factory.
Just put some bunkers down his ramp and a few sieged tanks, watch out for backstabbing warpprisms though.

Works at my level =p (lower tier diamond)

Ente

Germany1795 Posts

November 26 2010 16:55 GMT

#271

wouldn't a 2gate zealot push crush this really hard?

Yes a 2 gate zealot push WOULD crush it... but you dont go that build if he gets 2 gate zealot
so lets say - you wanna go for lets say phoenix and you see that he already build turrets (highly unlikely but nvm

) You probably will stop your phoenix build and go for sth else (if you have no stargate/phoenix at that point) yes you will probably have less then with an optimal build but he is behind, too

micjmac

42 Posts

November 26 2010 18:28 GMT

#272

I tried this build against a toss who did something interesting on Lost Temple. He expanded relatively quickly to one of the other mains (not his natural). He camped the ramp at his main, so I didn't feel comfortable pushing up the ramp. When I finally scouted his expansion moments later, he backstabbed my main while my thors and rines were on the other side of the map.

SuNSeT(OD)

Canada15 Posts

November 26 2010 19:44 GMT

#273

yah chargelots fed me my ass in this build

Talack

Canada2742 Posts

November 26 2010 20:34 GMT

#274

Very good build but you gotta do it quickly before they can get 3-4 immortals. Even with 8 scvs or so repairing a thor you cannot withstand more than 1 immortal + other units attacking your thors.

But this is a very strong opening, just don't delay your attack too much.

sanctuz

Norway184 Posts

November 27 2010 01:58 GMT

#275

Maybe my timing is off but i lose to toss who chronoboost spam their immos, so they just have 3 out when i get there.

vnlegend

United States1389 Posts

November 27 2010 02:39 GMT

#276

lol at the people saying how "simple" this is to counter.

I am around 2200 diamond and I've basically won almost every game vs Protoss for the past 500 pts with this build.

Even if they stop it, you've got an expo up before theirs because you killed their expo or they had to cancel/not expand. Then it's just a standard macro game where your Thors can Strike Cannon the Colossi.

solowmodel

3 Posts

November 27 2010 04:00 GMT

#277

This strat is pretty great thanks! Helped me move to platinum

headies

United States63 Posts

November 28 2010 06:46 GMT

#278

Sure, there are some BO's that will crush this, such as 2 gate zealot, but what if you're trying to play safe?

The past few games vs T I've been getting crushed by this build @ 2000 diamond. Granted, I am FE'ing. I've been 1 gate FE so much vs terran, now when I encounter this build I'm pretty screwed.

Does this build pretty much hard counter 1 gate FE? Is there a way to stop it if you do decide to expand? Also, what if you just want to 1 base, I assume to counter just go for heavy immortal/zealot play?

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

November 28 2010 07:55 GMT

#279

On November 28 2010 15:46 headies wrote:
Sure, there are some BO's that will crush this, such as 2 gate zealot, but what if you're trying to play safe?

The past few games vs T I've been getting crushed by this build @ 2000 diamond. Granted, I am FE'ing. I've been 1 gate FE so much vs terran, now when I encounter this build I'm pretty screwed.

Does this build pretty much hard counter 1 gate FE? Is there a way to stop it if you do decide to expand? Also, what if you just want to 1 base, I assume to counter just go for heavy immortal/zealot play?

Don't think it is possbile to beat with 1gate expand, unless you go something like 2/3 gate then robo straight after and pump immortals non stop. Something like steppes it is an auto lose though. Even if you get enough immortals off a regular 1 base play to stop the rush, you end up being set behind like another Terran player has said, terran gets his expo whilst you just lost the majority of your forces + no expo, and very late Colossus against strike cannon Thors...it isn't very easy to beat, I've only won when the Terran mis micro'd really badly...

xseverityx

52 Posts

November 28 2010 08:11 GMT

#280

Main issue I have with 1-gate FE is the scout timing. You'll scout the front and see marines+bunker so its gotta be this or banshee...so you HAVE to get out at LEAST 1 observer so you know if you are going to have cloak coming your way. But even if you chrono out an observer and chrono an immortal while your observer finds out what tech he went you will still be looking at best 2 immortal when the pushes arrives with fairly low gateway count. that doesn't even take into account that by not making a 2nd obs you leave yourself vulnerable if cloak finishes while your first obs is at his base and will have to cancel an immortal and wait out the observer buildtime while he rapes your probes.

I wonder if putting cannons down in the mineral lines and going either charge tech or DT's could be a viable transition from 1-gate fe in response to 1-base tech build, takes care of cloak and chargelots would tear up marines+get easy surround for hold position scv kills. I just really hate going early stargate since it has no aoe transition.