EPTI see a lot of people talking about what can beat this, but this build doesn't really have a definite tell until you see the armory correct?
[G] TvP 2 Thor Push - Page 13
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naveedx983
United States58 Posts
I see a lot of people talking about what can beat this, but this build doesn't really have a definite tell until you see the armory correct? | ||
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Khadgars
United States38 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/108557-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-temple I'm just curious if its viable or I got lucky playing a bad zerg. -Khad | ||
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Roblicious
United States64 Posts
I have ran into this build 4 times and only managed to beat it once with a 3 Gate Robo using Immortals, and I think the only reason why I beat him is because his units were too spread apart on rally. Im still trying to find a way to beat this! | ||
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wmd221
40 Posts
really when it comes down to it if your marines die you will not significally damage the toss players army or economy if he micros his stalkers right and doesnt just let them die. | ||
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galzohar
Israel100 Posts
Against most other builds it seems to me like doing it with 1 thor and proxy factory is more difficult to stop than waiting for 2 thors and building them all the way at your own base, though on some maps the factory is definitely harder to hide. Of course I'm not nearly as good as many players here, but good enough to figure out how many units me and my enemy are able to get after X minutes. Maybe it's just my micro being bad, but it seems like 3 gate robo (or possibly even a fast and well-executed 4-gate) gets too many units too fast. | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
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DevanT
United States71 Posts
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
On November 25 2010 01:59 wmd221 wrote: as a 2k terran using this build the times i do lose using it are to 3 gate robo's with constant chrono boost on the robo and focus fire on marines. really when it comes down to it if your marines die you will not significally damage the toss players army or economy if he micros his stalkers right and doesnt just let them die. I started using this build only yesterday and I've been doing great. A couple of ideas I've been toying with for this push, is taking one SCV to try making a bunker behind the thors, and/or have a quick followup (blue?) hellion drop in his minerals while you're pushing up his ramp/expansion. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
Hi I'm a Platinum player and have some questions. In a real game how can you open 1 gate stargate vs a Terran because of the threat of cloaked banshees? How are you SURE he's going Thor rush and not a raven/marine/banshee push where Immortals are absolutely useless. Also if you're opening 1 gate stargate how do you play if he chooses just to go regular MMM with a timing push coming right after you take your expo. Please let me know as I thought it was impossible to open without Robo without a BO loss somewhere along the line, thanks. [/QUOTE] If you watch the replay, the response is the exact same to the thor push as it is to a banshee push. I go 1 gate stargate, chronoboost a fast phoenix and scout. If you see a tech labbed starport and can find no armory, its a raven or banshee, if you find the armory its a thor. Either way you need a robo as your next building and another gateway to make sure you have enough of an army with your tier2 units. You can see aTnSocke do this opener alot versus terran, sometimes he opens robo then stargate if he suspects banshee/raven... sometimes he opens stargate then robo if he didnt get much information with his initial poke. I prefer stargate then robo because phoenix can cover more ground, quickly, and you'll be able to really come up with the right response before the aggression comes. you'll notice in the replay I open zealot zealot stalker, which is fine vs an early push with good micro and allows you to get an ultra fast phoenix. The robo comes online a full minute before any cloaked banshee is possible anyways so if you need to make an observer you have time and you have flying units that get a ton of bonus armor vs banshee so they wont be able to poke in and get away at half hp cause your stalkers couldnt quite kill them. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On November 24 2010 16:11 naveedx983 wrote: I've tried this a few times, it seemed to do a decent job of killing or denying his expansion while letting me get mine up with nearly no harass. I see a lot of people talking about what can beat this, but this build doesn't really have a definite tell until you see the armory correct? if you see alot of marines at the front and no tech labbed reactor you know hes teching to something, if hes not getting stim and hes not getting a thor or banshee, his build is shitty. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On November 25 2010 01:50 Roblicious wrote: I play toss and I ran into this build again last night, I was trying the 13 units at 6 minute 4 gate and for some reason I was off by 30 secs, as I went to his front door he had like 2 Thors with a handful of marines, he wiped the floor with my units, I still managed to kill 1.5 thors lol and his marines before having to retreat. Strangely enough he didnt counter, he and I both macroed up and he hit me with like 10 Thors with cannons and a buncha marines and wiped the floor with gateway units, 3 VRs, and 5 Immortals. :/ I have ran into this build 4 times and only managed to beat it once with a 3 Gate Robo using Immortals, and I think the only reason why I beat him is because his units were too spread apart on rally. Im still trying to find a way to beat this! read the whole thread there are several ways to beat this, but none of them allow for mistakes | ||
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Laeryck
9 Posts
This build is the most retarded build in the universe. He denies ur scouting, you need a robo bay, and then for each immortals you make he insta kills it, so immortals are supposed to be the counter unit to thors? oO I have never won against this build if I did not have twice the bases or twice the army or three times the skill. On a equal skill level, he barely loses any unit. Would really like to know if someone has a build that can scout him (remmeber we have to guess between thors or banshees) and that can kill his army in A COST EFFICIENT WAY | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
On November 25 2010 04:09 Laeryck wrote: and that can kill his army in A COST EFFICIENT WAY This is where this BO is phenomenal as T. I have to say there's no better feeling than having an opponenent GG'ing, then looking at the score screen seeing both your armies where at about the same power, but his line goes all the way down while yours barely moves. The only way to beat this push is manually killing SCVs. You simply CANNOT overpower it with 1A unless the Thors are really badly positioned, and the reason is retarded AI ignoring SCVs that are not in "attack" mode. Once SCVs are down, kill marines, THEN the thors. And while Immortals are supposed to be the counter of armored units, 250mm actually hard-counter robotics units so I wouldn't count on them for that. What you need is many gateway units. Sentries can mess up repairing SCVs with FF as well. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
On November 25 2010 04:04 Jayrod wrote: if you see alot of marines at the front and no tech labbed reactor you know hes teching to something, if hes not getting stim and hes not getting a thor or banshee, his build is shitty. Protoss may not see the rax at all if it is built inside the base, but it doesn't really matter because they'll see a handful of marines and possibly a bunker. You should easily be able to tell whether it's barracks play or tech. But the awesome part is that all the tech play looks the same at the ramp! It could be a hellion drop, banshees, thors, or a polt style attack which is actually really heavy on bio after all. The appropriate responses to all those openings differ as well. Sure, immortals are nice against thors but you really really don't want two or three immortals against marines, banshees, and a raven. Phoenixes are pretty good if you think he's going for a starport but pretty marginal against marines and thors. Of course it isn't impossible, but you have to be balanced in your preparation against the possible tech builds and it's pretty risky to try to blind counter. So even if there is a magical unit mix that shuts this down I wouldn't worry about it. No sane person on ladder is going to be blind countering thors, and in a tournament bo3 just mix it up. A safe balanced build can still stop the thor push but it's silly to call the opening bad because "I can make the perfect composition of units to obliterate thors based on scouting marines at your ramp". I actually think that positioning and patience from both players matters more than unit comp. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On November 23 2010 02:24 Setev wrote: Naaah, don't form these perceptions too early. Try the more decent late game build orders from the guides/casters/TL. The part in bold is certainly not true. You misunderstand. Protoss will autowin the game after 12 minutes because this guy got into diamond using a bunch of all in builds/3 rax and actually has no idea how to play late game. On November 23 2010 04:47 CurLy[] wrote: BASTARD, haha. I just got back and figured I'd search TL to see if this was a build... I wish I saw this thread before the tourney haha. The first time seeing this was a total mindfuck, was fully expecting banshees, which means I pump out an obs instead of immortal first. Its hard to have more than 1 or 2 immortals to defend and they just get cannoned :O Thunderflesh was rollin through protoss xD Has anyone thought of trying void rays when they see a bunch of marines, they work against thors and banshee harass alike, although they would be less effective against a marine banshee push. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
Has anyone thought of trying void rays when they see a bunch of marines, they work against thors and banshee harass alike, although they would be less effective against a marine banshee push. I think I see the flaw in this proposed strategy... | ||
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eddytlaw
United States102 Posts
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Roblicious
United States64 Posts
TvP 2 Thor vs 2 gate Robo Expand | ||
Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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