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Hi,
I watch a lot of pro replays and I learn so much from them. There are a couple of things that I cannot see though.
I was wondering if anyone can tell me general settings that high level players use OR what you use yourself if you are a high level player (as these are the most efficient ways to do things usually).
Things like how they move their cameras aside from control groups (side scrolling, middle mouse drag scrolling, saved camera positions; f5) and what general sensitivities.
What hand position do they use?
I copied my hotkeys exactly as Idra does it, 1-3 for units, 4 for hatch, 5-8 for each queen, 3 or 0 for overloard/overseer. I find it hard to make control groups sometimes because my pinky rests on shift, not on control. I've heard of players using their upper palm to hit control? Do a lot of good players do this? Is it faster once you get used to it? And what do you use to hit c, v, b with then, your thumb?
Should I continue to increase my mouse sensitivity slowly until I'm at the max?
Also, if you have multiple hatcheries in a hotkey, is there a way you can toggle/set which one you want to jump to when you double tap it, or do you always have to go to the closest one?
I really care about high apm players because my apm is not very high right now (100) and if I'm going to improve it, I'd rather change my playstyle now rather than later when I'm capped because of how I play. Some of this stuff may seem small, but I'm just trying to play the game as efficiently as possible.
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Its better to play how it feels good for you. Copying hand postions and hot keys wont make you a extreamly better player. It will probley hurt you for awhile.
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On November 05 2010 08:04 TheWarbler wrote:
Its better to play how it feels good for you. Copying hand postions and hot keys wont make you a extreamly better player. It will probley hurt you for awhile.
Yes I agree, it might hurt me for a while. But once I get used to it, don't you think it'll be better in the long run. I don't know what settings I want to play at; I've tried camera sensitivities from 35-100 and everything in between. My hand positioning just feels wrong... When I'm in doubt I like to learn from people better than me. When I'm struggling with a strategy, I watch someone better than me do it (I don't do it how I think will work the best, I watch a pro and accept THAT way as best).
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i used mac there's an option to switch using ctrl and command key (alt key for windows)
maybe you have that in game option
use thumb to press alt
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Just stop switching stuff around and stick to something. Humans can adapt to just about anything; in the end its just what you are used to.
I don't think there is one hotkey set-up or sensitivity that is better than all the rest.
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For increasing your mouse sensitivity, don't overdo it. You are much better getting a mouse with very high DPI. I use an Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 which only has 450 DPI and I have my mouse sensitivity at 85% and I do NOT get pixel-perfect precision. My mouse actually skips 2 or 3 pixels each time I move it. This can really fuck with your ability to click on small units properly (I notice it the most when trying to ctrl-click my Zerglings). The only reason I haven't upgraded to a mouse with better DPI is that I haven't found one that is ergonomic enough. My next try will be with an MX518 but I just can't afford it right now.
And don't listen to the guy who told you not to change your setup. Of course it will hurt you in the short term as your brain adjusts, but in the long run it is always worth it to use a setup that is inherently more efficient. I remap my hotkeys in ANY game ANY time I think it will give me an advantage, and there is usually about 2 hours of adjustment followed by a lifetime of ownage. For christ's sake you aren't 80 years old, don't be getting stuck in your ways now.
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On November 05 2010 12:51 Uranium wrote:
For increasing your mouse sensitivity, don't overdo it. You are much better getting a mouse with very high DPI. I use an Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 which only has 450 DPI and I have my mouse sensitivity at 85% and I do NOT get pixel-perfect precision. My mouse actually skips 2 or 3 pixels each time I move it. This can really fuck with your ability to click on small units properly (I notice it the most when trying to ctrl-click my Zerglings). The only reason I haven't upgraded to a mouse with better DPI is that I haven't found one that is ergonomic enough. My next try will be with an MX518 but I just can't afford it right now.
And don't listen to the guy who told you not to change your setup. Of course it will hurt you in the short term as your brain adjusts, but in the long run it is always worth it to use a setup that is inherently more efficient. I remap my hotkeys in ANY game ANY time I think it will give me an advantage, and there is usually about 2 hours of adjustment followed by a lifetime of ownage. For christ's sake you aren't 80 years old, don't be getting stuck in your ways now.
Thank you for giving me a true answer. I was hesitant to post at first because I figured I would get a lot of answers like the posts above...
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Every top level SC2 player uses a different setup. There's a limit to how much you can streamline your interface for SC2, and there's a limit to how much it will significantly affect your game. There are people in mid-high diamond with barely above 100APM, and these minute issues you're concerning yourself with don't really manifest themselves unless you're playing in an extraordinarily risky situation.
Figure out what is more comfortable for you. Don't just look at Idra, look at anyone and everyone you can. If you see something that immediately appeals to you, then try it out. Take things slow. Don't sacrifice your playing level for the moment for some supposed, theoretical, or even just hypothetical advantage.
You're going to be fighting the game and your own habits when you should be more concerned with developing your overall game sense (timing, strategy, micro, etc).
For shit's sake, Boxer used arrow keys to pan his camera in BW until late 2009..
I'm not saying to not change your setup, I'm just saying to not put too much stock into it and that the specificity you're going into isn't going to help you out an amazing amount in the long run unless you're playing at the highest of levels.
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Yeah, do what works for you. A great player would still be great even if he used a crappy hand setup. Copying his hand setup won't help.
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On November 05 2010 08:04 TheWarbler wrote:
Its better to play how it feels good for you. Copying hand postions and hot keys wont make you a extreamly better player. It will probley hurt you for awhile. With that logic some noobs would never use hotkeys and end up never advancing out of bronze. You really have to force yourself to start doing it if you are not used to it and copying a pro seems like an excellent start.
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On November 05 2010 12:47 seaofsaturn wrote:
Just stop switching stuff around and stick to something. Humans can adapt to just about anything; in the end its just what you are used to.
I don't think there is one hotkey set-up or sensitivity that is better than all the rest.
Very true. Huk still hotkeys his nexus to 0. Why? Because the hotkey for probe was p in BW. Is it ideal for SC2? Probably not. Doesn't it matter? Probably not either.
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On November 05 2010 16:15 AbeToss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 12:47 seaofsaturn wrote:
Just stop switching stuff around and stick to something. Humans can adapt to just about anything; in the end its just what you are used to.
I don't think there is one hotkey set-up or sensitivity that is better than all the rest. Very true. Huk still hotkeys his nexus to 0. Why? Because the hotkey for probe was p in BW. Is it ideal for SC2? Probably not. Doesn't it matter? Probably not either.
For someone who plays as much as Huk it might not take much more time to press 0 instead of f.e. 4 but for rest of us pressing 0 will probably require taking eyes off the screen to look at the keyboard.
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Units 1-3. Queens 4. Hatchery 5. Nyduses and overlords and stuff go from 0 and downwards.
Personally, I think Queens on one button really saves you time when you're injecting. Makes it easier to gather up your queens and defend, too. Plus, easier mass transfusions in battle. The only downside is trying to defending with specific queens but you get them coming from all over the map. I suggest you give it a try though if you're really interested in finding ways to improve your game.
And upper palm I've found is the best way to hit ctrl and group your units.
After watching TLO play as Zerg against Cutter, I've realized the effectiveness in having two seperate groups of Zerglings sandwiching the enemy. Therefore, I've thought about pushing the hotkeys back at least another number so I can get units from 1-4.
Sometimes I really wonder how Fruitdealer plays with all his different unit compositions. Does he manually select his units with the mouse in battle? Because I can imagine at the very least you'd need groups for overlord drops, banelings, zerglings/roach/hydra, mutalisk, and infestor. That's five control groups! o.o
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Expert opinions are always better than an uninformed choice, so adapting yourself to someone else's hotkey setup might be fine. But as you gain experience, keep possible changes in mind. Some of these players' choices are rooted in years and years of playing Brood War and acclimating to the stiff nuances of its controls. Starcraft 2's control is much more fluid in comparison.
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I'm not the best SC2 player but I've been playing computer games now so this reply won't be totally SC2 orientated. I still hope I'll manage to get my point trough.
Hotkeys: Don't be afraid to change them at any point. But ask yourself some questions first. Like what do I want todo fast? What do I want to be there but I won't be clicking it too often? The reason why is because some actions in a game is more important that others. Like I re-mapped my grenade button in CoD5 once and I failed for a few matches because I kept pressing the wrong button. But once I got it nailed I had a smoother time playing because the button suited me better.
On a personal level I am working on my hotkeys in SC2 with the intention of being able to micro a little while I macro up in a battle. That means I am using 1 to 4 as my unit keys, and then 5 is all my hatches and 6+ is queens. That is my goal anyway but I don't have it totally yet.
Using someone elses setup isn't a bad idea, IF you ask yourself the questions above again. Why does Fruitdealer use his setup? Why does Huk use his? What do they want to gain or is it just bad habbits?
Mouse Speed: This is totally personal and I don't think anyone can say sensitivity 70% is the best since it depends on the mouse and what you are used too. But personally I do recommend people to turn their sensitivity down because with a high sensitivty they often over-shoot their target. I see this a lot in FPS games when people panic and the aim just flies across the screen hitting nothing.
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I think the best advice is that use what is easiest to you...
That said : USE HOTKEYS
Way better than moving mouse selecting etc etc...
Use what makes sense to you... I hotkey my overlord that i need to SAC on 0-hotkey just so i know i still need this guy to die at a point in the game 
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There's a lot of good stuff in here about hotkeys. How about the camera though? Do most of you guys side scroll or middle mouse drag? I hate having to side scroll but I'm not really used to middle mouse drag.
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depends on what you wanna see, scrolling works but only for short distances IMO, I'd rather just click in the minimap if I spot something, specialy while macro'ing, you dont need your mouse for anything but larva inject, which you can do on the minimap anyways, and works much better with all queens in 1 group, they inject the closest hatchery so they dont all run around, and I,d rather seperate my hacheries so I can make drones on the right one and units where I want them to be, I dont like having 1 rally point for all my hatcheries
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I use the middle mouse grab, but I don't know if it's the most eficient way. I'm just used to it from Illustrator and Photoshop.
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If you want more information than you will ever need about mouse sensitivy, check out this CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide. It goes into way more detail than you'll need, but the sections on mouse sensitivity are great.
Basically, it says that you should use whatever is comfortable, and it give you instructions on how to figure out what is comfortable for you. If your mouse moves across the entire screen if you move it an inch, you'll sure move the mouse fast but you'll be very inaccurate.
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EPT
