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Knee
73 Posts
 but that's offtopic slightly, I would really like to know (as protoss) how to avoid getting scouted? whenever I devote to a build, I get scouted, and then the enemy just counters and wins.... I'd really love some advice, and I'll try to get some replays later, if you really want them. Thanks so much, it's really a huge problem with my gameplay.. | ||
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
A. Against terran, you can't not be scouted because of scan B. Against zerg, just try to kill any ovies trying to come into your base to scout. But when ovie speed is done or when overseer comes, you can't really stop scouting | ||
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PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
Good builds are good builds because they allow you to deal with anything, albeit with slight adjustments, regardless of whether or not your opponent knows what you're doing. You shouldn't need to rely on the element of surprise in your builds to get wins. | ||
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sparkyk24
49 Posts
On October 29 2010 03:27 PROJECTILE wrote: What point of the game are you talking? Good builds are good builds because they allow you to deal with anything, albeit with slight adjustments, regardless of whether or not your opponent knows what you're doing. You shouldn't need to rely on the element of surprise in your builds to get wins. O_O I must disagree! Even if you're going with a sound build, it's still preferable to have your opponent not know whether or not you're going for a cheese, air or ground, etc. Many games are won or lost mainly dependent on effective scouting and scouting prevention, my good sir. | ||
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PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
On October 29 2010 03:32 sparkyk24 wrote: O_O I must disagree! Even if you're going with a sound build, it's still preferable to have your opponent not know whether or not you're going for a cheese, air or ground, etc. Many games are won or lost mainly dependent on effective scouting and scouting prevention, my good sir. Less information is preferable, but realistically you're not going to be stopping them from scouting you with a worker. As protoss, he has to wait for his stalker before he can deny any worker scout. The best builds are robust against a large variety of opponent builds so it doesn't matter if he scouts you. The lack of information is preferable because he may respond poorly, but your build shouldn't be dependent on that lack of scouting information. | ||
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pyrobb
Canada16 Posts
During mid game, 1) vs Terran: just don't build all ur tech in one place, so they can't just use one scan to see everything 2) vs Zerg: try to build ur tech far away from overlord air distance, so you can kill overlords as they come in 3) vs Protoss: pay attention to observer cloaking around ur base and build a observer of ur own to kill it. | ||
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DustyShelf
United Kingdom111 Posts
However you are correct in stating that if you open with a solid build it is good to prevent your opponent from seeing it to keep them guessing about what you're up to. In the case of an opponent such as zerg especially as it might force them to make more units than they need "just in case". The counter example is going no DTs or observers while your opponent builds "wasted" detection "just in case" because they couldn't scout you. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On October 29 2010 03:27 PROJECTILE wrote: What point of the game are you talking? Good builds are good builds because they allow you to deal with anything, albeit with slight adjustments, regardless of whether or not your opponent knows what you're doing. You shouldn't need to rely on the element of surprise in your builds to get wins. I heard day9 say essentially the same thing. I think you should either reference him, or prepare yourself to face his team of lawyers. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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AZbadfish
United States56 Posts
The best thing you can do is actively scout yourself so you know what he's up to and can prepare accordingly. I hope that made sense I'm really really tired. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
1.)Scouting to see tech. -Distribute pylons throughout your base. even though scan cannot be denied spreading your pylons throughout the base will make it less likely that a scan finds your structure. Risk- early game your buildings will have less pylons powering them and they can go offline easier. -Hide tech in a random corner of the map that your opponent most likely will not go to for a while. Risk- the tech structure could get seen without you noticing and is vulnerable. 2.) Scouting to see units and/or army composition (opponent wants to scout the front of your base) -Keep the bulk of your army close to the front of your base but have 1-2 expendable units further forward so if you see a scout such as a stimmed marine/hellion/speedling/stalker or what not moving forward just to see what your army composition is. Then simply back up enough of your army so the only things you have for him to see are the things that it takes to kill said scout really fast. Meaning if your composition is 35 stalkers 10ht and 15lots and the opponent sends a scouting ling to see whats up you don't need all of that to kill the ling fast just move 4 stalkers forward and you will 1 hit kill the ling now all your opponent has seen is 4 stalkers. 3.)Scouting to find expos In all honesty I don't think you can stop this. As even if you kill the scout he's going to know something is up as units in this game to just suffer from spontaneous combustion. | ||
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SiegeMode
United States206 Posts
At your level there's no point hiding tech because your opponents won't know how to react to a solidly executed macro build (if they did, they would be in diamond.) | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas 16 pylon 17 core When the Cyber Core is finished, you should have enough money/gas to chronoboost a stalker and warp gate tech at the same time (do not build a zealot in the beginning). As soon as this stalker comes out any scout in your base has to leave or will die. At this point in the game you have shown a very basic but flexible build as Protoss and you can tech into anything, as this look does not show anything and is very standard. Once the scout is gone, put your stalker and your other units at your ramp and don't allow anything through. From this build you can make 3 more gates if you wanted, or 2 more gates and a stargate, a robo facility and then 2 gates, another gate and a robo facility, 2 more gates and a templar archives, etc. It opens into every Protoss tech tree the best without showing what you are up to in the early stages. | ||
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.Aar
2177 Posts
On October 29 2010 03:51 Zorkmid wrote: I heard day9 say essentially the same thing. I think you should either reference him, or prepare yourself to face his team of lawyers. Or his fanbase of several tens of thousands. But yeah, pretty much this. A strong player doesn't need to always rely on a sense of surprise. Although going for hidden tech can be deeply rewarding, you shouldn't rely on it because other players can simply predict what you're doing based on what they do scout and counter it anyway. | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
Keep your army at your ramp to kill scouts and don't place tech at your ramp. Place tech in your main AWAY from your ramp & nexus vs. Terran (to avoid scans) and AWAY from ledges vs. Zerg (to avoid overlords). All of these other posters talking about "strong players not needing a sense of surprise" or "strong players not relying on cheese" are only partially correct. There's nothing wrong with proxying or cheesing occasionally to keep your opponents honest. FruitDealer 6-pooled in the 1st GSL. I doubt anybody would doubt that he's a strong player. SlayerS`BoxeR` proxies all the damn time. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
I think day9 said it really well in a recent daily. He said you can't rely on completely shutting down scouting in a good build. He likens SC2 to a chess game. With good players, both know approximately what's possible, just like a chess player, you can see the "board" and the possibilities and what's important is to make the good plays. It doesn't matter that your opponent knows that it is probably coming; it's the good play. There are builds that will rely on shutting down early scouting, but most of these are gimmicky builds or cheeses. Yeah, if you're trying an early DT build, you can't let your opponent see the temple going up, or you lose if you go through with it if your opponent is a decent player. In these cases a wall off is going to be your best option. You probably shouldn't be relying on these types of builds at low levels to win though, so stick to regular builds and just outplay your opponents. Good Luck. | ||
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SiegeMode
United States206 Posts
On October 29 2010 04:54 Toxigen wrote: All of these other posters talking about "strong players not needing a sense of surprise" or "strong players not relying on cheese" are only partially correct. There's nothing wrong with proxying or cheesing occasionally to keep your opponents honest. OP is a bronze player. He needs to learn the very very basics of the game before he needs to worry about "keeping his opponents honest." Until he improves, anybody who knows how to take advantage of safe standard play will smash him to bits anyway (so it's not worth worrying about.) Also, for most of us, ladder is the main source of practice. If you're not facing the same opponent repeatedly, there's really no need to cheese except for fun or to practice cheese (which is really not a very useful skill until you have fundamentals.) | ||
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Doctorjorts
58 Posts
-Day[9] | ||
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Archmage
United States169 Posts
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