EPT[G]TvZ Marine/Raven - Page 7
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boboyo
Australia63 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 26 2010 16:45 sodoff wrote: Hey great post OP! I reviewed four of your featured replays.I tried this strategy and i did win my first game. This link is a diamond rank 7 terran vs a diamond rank 7 zerg. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-160685.jpg) Check this out OP and offer me your suggestions please, i didnt have quite as good of macro as you.. also i didnt push out with small groups of marines as much as you did. Seems like zerg liked it too  One question i have, is that when you have a 170+ army and the zerg has a 170 + army, and he rolls at your marines with like 40 banelings, what do you do? there was one situation where i had a big engagement and lost alot of marines. Wow, that was pretty sweet. Good job. I liked how you were able to make fire breaks with your turrets to prevent zerg from chasing you. That is a good technique to have. The main problem I saw in your play was that you were not aggressive enough. Being aggressive addresses many problems. It allows you to to pull the mutaball to his base to defend. It allows you to trade supply so you don't max out and end up at 200/200. You really want to avoid getting too close to 200/200 before the 20 minute mark or whenever the zerg starts burning out. Otherwise if you lose your army, you won't have 50 marines sitting back at your rally. You can remove the creep as well as prevent zerg from getting a massive army that rolls yours in a high food battle. Your macro could have been better but it comes in time so just keep working on it. 2-3 bases of minerals with possibly a gold mixed in is really hard to keep down. I was amused by the fact by the fact that you did very few mules and never got stim. Either way, it was a pretty good game. For those who want to try other unit combos, get the general mid game of having 2 bases and running around forcing zerg to make units down. Then you can try whatever you want. I personally really want a great Terran like QXC do this against a good zerg like Dimaga. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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kme
Serbia176 Posts
On October 26 2010 21:50 Slayer91 wrote: Anyone doubting this strat watch bratok vs ret in craftcup Yeah, he used something similar in game one. Link If there is a player who could make this strat work, it's BratOK. His micro is so good that he can probably make anything work :D. | ||
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Blobskillz
Germany548 Posts
TvZ clearly needs less whining and more thinking. | ||
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Lipski
Poland373 Posts
gonna post some replays soon, i'm ~1600 terran | ||
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
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Benshin88
United States183 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Quick question; do you get nanosteel and/or durable materials? I am wondering if bringing 6 SCV's on autorepair to repair auto-turrets could be a wise investment. Since the Turrets would then have 3 armor it would make them virtually zergling proof and with SCV's repairing it would make them just that much stronger. Also what about making a force field of sorts of AT's when the Banes come rolling in? Do you simply prefer to spend the energy on HSM at that point? Also in the IdrA final game for GSL qualifying he seemed to encounter a mass raven build and shut it down 100% with Infestor play. How do you deal with Infestors? Mix in ghosts? | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On October 26 2010 22:41 Tenks wrote:Also in the IdrA final game for GSL qualifying he seemed to encounter a mass raven build and shut it down 100% with Infestor play. How do you deal with Infestors? Mix in ghosts? You can't, it completely shuts down any sort of mass-marine strategy. That's the reason this strategy isn't being used at the highest level of play. The problem with ghosts is that they'll cripple your Raven production and you will always lose them in an engagement - they're slow and they can't stim, so they'll always lag behind the rest of your units. You might land an EMP or two, but you're going to be hard-pressed to match his infestor count 1-1 with your ghost count, and after the first few ghosts die and Z starts to expand you're just falling further and further behind. It's even worse when you factor in upgrade costs - now you need the gas to pay for infantry upgrades, your tech infrastructure, ravens, raven upgrades (building armor, hsm, +25 energy), Ghosts AND Ghost upgrades. You simply can't pay for all that, and even if you could, you wouldn't be able to afford any medvacs, so FG would be even more of a threat. | ||
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Blobskillz
Germany548 Posts
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
regular up to gas. add 2nd, third, 4th, rax. first regular rax as usual has tech lab for Stim/HP upgrade. 2nd, 3rd, 4th rax has reactor cores, yuo pretty much beat anything except for mutas, since they will make you stay at your main and can fly away and stay away from teh marines if controled properly, ive used this and havent lost once, except for tonight when the guy harrassed both my main and nat back and forth, but the map was meta, so the main to nat distance is horribly close, so this strat isnt quite for that map in this case. Anywho nothing beats this. Show me otherwise. sick read btw! ill try this. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On October 27 2010 00:31 wishbones wrote: anyone here capable of trying, 4rax! Zergs like to fe, and this works well, but if he can muta harrasse ur pretty much screwed since everything has to be pure marines/scvs/supply depots, that is until you get an expo up, but you shouldn't have to, and if you do then you can think about turrets. regular up to gas. add 2nd, third, 4th, rax. first regular rax as usual has tech lab for Stim/HP upgrade. 2nd, 3rd, 4th rax has reactor cores, yuo pretty much beat anything except for mutas, since they will make you stay at your main and can fly away and stay away from teh marines if controled properly, ive used this and havent lost once, except for tonight when the guy harrassed both my main and nat back and forth, but the map was meta, so the main to nat distance is horribly close, so this strat isnt quite for that map in this case. Anywho nothing beats this. Show me otherwise. sick read btw! ill try this. Please don't hijack threads. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
More seriously this strat discussion was epically awesome. The marine trade is INSANELY important to ZvT and something so many Terrans miss out on. Fending off marines as zerg sucks 100% until you are on 3+ bases with baneling speed and creep spread and even then good control can make marines still be a pain. Regardless of what you make early on your investing larva + gas or tons of larva + minerals (if you go ling heavy) to fend off the marines. It really does have a huge impact on your economy and ability to tech. So many Terrans seem afraid to lean on marines at all which cost them heavily as they instead choose to trade gas for gas. As for the strat, I still need to watch the replays, but what kind of transitions can/do you make out of it? Once you have 7+ raven and your 2 bases it seems like you're going to start stock piling gas if you stop production on ravens due to having enough. Medivacs are one obvious transition, but do you ever play with marine-tank-raven or marine-thor-raven at this point? With ravens you can protect the immobility of the siege tanks to a good deal (SM overlords trying to drop) and tanks will really cover taking out any ground units (except maybe if they get a good influx of ultralisks). As for infestors shutting it down, I dunno it seems like a control thing really. If they're heavy on infestors you may want to have a more limited raven count and invest some gas into other things that are less prone to infestors like siege tanks. With tank + raven and good control you should be able to do relatively well at keeping infestors from getting off too many fungals. Also don't forget the timing. It takes zerg quite a while to get infestors from lair tech. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On October 27 2010 00:30 Blobskillz wrote: or oyu just dont sit around on 2 bases all day long No. You cannot afford mass expansions, an army, full upgrades for ghosts, ravens and marines, any significant number of medvacs AND your tech/production infrastructure. Infestors will steamroll you in the midgame, take the entire map and hold you to 2-3 bases until you tap out. The BratOK v. Ret game is a perfect example of why this build is weak - midgame Ret has a 1-2 base advantage and a 50+ food advantage until he throws away the game by overreacting to drops and tries to just outmuscle BratOK with Ultras instead of sticking with infestors while slowly getting ultras. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
The Ling/Bling/Muta-builds that pretty much dominate Terran MMM+Tanks could be very week against HSM, if you just peak forward with your Ravens, get off a few HSM's and then push in with your Marines. I don't really see a problem with Mass-Roaches: PDD will soak up huge amounts of DMG from the Roaches and you can counter fast with Mass-Marauders (would be good to not build Reactors at the Rax anyways, to safe up gas and have the possibility to put down mass-techlabs fast if the Zerg goes for Roaches). Hydras really shouldn't be a big Problem either, since you can snipe his Tumors easily thanks to the ravens and Hydras are so slow off-creep, that they get pwned by HSM. PDD should help out a lot as well. I guess the build could be pretty Micro-intensive, cuz you have to use the Ravens very well offensively and snipe stuff before the attack happens without getting them sniped and if Zerg wants to attack you, Marine-spreading and hitting the right Units at the right time with HSM could be pretty difficult. So I think Speedling+Baneling will still be the hardest build to play against, but if done right, Ravens could do better than Tanks as the go-to AoE against Speedling/Baneling. IMHO, it could be much better than Tank+MMM, since Ravens are more mobile than Tanks, help you scout Tumors, don't make you waste tons of scans against burrowed blings and are pretty versatile with their 3 completely different spells. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On a side note, I hope SM gets a tiny tiny buff because if Terrans need to rely on SM a bit I think the matchup could be really fun. It'd certainly be a lot better than the current state where Terrans have a very ball or drop oriented army. Auto-turret and PDD are cool spells, but they tend to seem less tactical or control oriented than something like SM. | ||
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
It doesn't. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On October 27 2010 01:01 Logo wrote: Well the big possible limitation kickin might be the energy for the ravens. At best a raven can use SM+Auto-turret if it was full energy. 125 energy for SM is pretty limiting. Also SM's range is a factor. At 6 range it doesn't leave a lot of room for flexibility (for example you can't SM hydras and be sure the raven will live). On a side note, I hope SM gets a tiny tiny buff because if Terrans need to rely on SM a bit I think the matchup could be really fun. It'd certainly be a lot better than the current state where Terrans have a very ball or drop oriented army. Auto-turret and PDD are cool spells, but they tend to seem less tactical or control oriented than something like SM. True and I also think HSM would be fine if it would cost like 100 Energy, but still: If you get out Ravens soon and maybe even research their energy-upgrade, you can certainly push with a strong force off of 2 bases. I mean: Defending 2-bases as Terran against a Zerg really shouldn't be a big Problem if you play defensive and then win or do a lot of DMG with a strong push. And with a 1/1/1-build into expand, you can get out Ravens so fast and can defend quite easily against a Zerg, that doesn't go for some kind of very aggressive all-in. And even if he does, you can scout it and prepare with bunkers, repairing/bllocking SCV's etc. It will also help you to time your push, because you can either achieve a strong timing-push by timing it according to your opponent, which can be pretty hard, but if you time it on sth lke (2-3 Ravens with enough Energy for HSM/PDD), suddenly your push-timing becomes very decisive and strong. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
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