EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 429
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On November 23 2012 12:22 zasg wrote: I use camera hotkeys for hatcheries for injects (mine are rebound to Shift + qwerty, with infestors eggs on X, this allows me to select queens shift + V and through qwerty for injects). I also especially in zvz use a camera hotkey for the opponents natural so in the early game I can quickly camera hotkey over to his natural to check drone numbers in case he is pumping units. This brings me to another question: How do players who don't hotkey individual hatches keep track of their injects? To me the biggest advantage of hotkeying individual hatches is that you can tap them (only once) to check if you need to inject without changing current view from your army or whatever. So if you want to be on top of your injects and you only have 1 hotkey for all hatches (e.g. Stephano), what can you do? | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On November 23 2012 17:27 Azoryen wrote: This brings me to another question: How do players who don't hotkey individual hatches keep track of their injects? To me the biggest advantage of hotkeying individual hatches is that you can tap them (only once) to check if you need to inject without changing current view from your army or whatever. So if you want to be on top of your injects and you only have 1 hotkey for all hatches (e.g. Stephano), what can you do? Inject all of your hatches at the same time? or just use backspace (base camera) | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On November 23 2012 18:11 TheGreenMachine wrote: Inject all of your hatches at the same time? or just use backspace (base camera) Maybe I didn't explain myself well. What I mean is: how can you be alert to the fact that you need to inject? With separate hatch hotkeys, you tap the hotkey and you get this huge horizontal bar showing larva progress. If you have 4 hatches on the same hotkey, all you get is 4 little green icons. So I have to keep changing my vision back to my bases to check if I need to inject. | ||
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aKaKano
United States2 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On November 23 2012 19:04 Azoryen wrote: Maybe I didn't explain myself well. What I mean is: how can you be alert to the fact that you need to inject? With separate hatch hotkeys, you tap the hotkey and you get this huge horizontal bar showing larva progress. If you have 4 hatches on the same hotkey, all you get is 4 little green icons. So I have to keep changing my vision back to my bases to check if I need to inject. I have all my hatches on 4 and one of my hatcheries (one that isn't used for upgrading) bound to 5. Then I can just tap 5 briefly to check timing. But to be totally honest, I do not spam check enough, I spend about 3 weeks just purely focusing on nailing my injects and got the timing down in my head so well that I rarely have large gaps on injects and rarely have queens with bulk energy. I think I do need to force myself to start tapping 5 as it will be a good habit to constantly do though, especially in hectic moments! I also occasionally just zoom to a base and go back to the fight or w/e I am doing as it only takes about .5 seconds to quickly check by changing camera 'send command Shift+q 11 back to army' or something. | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
Stephano from what ive seen on his stream left clicks the minimap a lot to move around rather than double tapping hatch hotkeys. To each his own I think. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
Maybe I didn't explain myself well. What I mean is: how can you be alert to the fact that you need to inject? With separate hatch hotkeys, you tap the hotkey and you get this huge horizontal bar showing larva progress. If you have 4 hatches on the same hotkey, all you get is 4 little green icons. You are always selecting the hatcheries to spend larva, so you always see the larva count. When the larva count jumps (ie when you make a bunch at once), its time to inject. Also any time you have a hatchery in vision it still has the larva spawn progress bar on top. I like to keep on hatchery on its own hotkey as well for keeping an eye on larva progress, even though I macro with all hatches together. | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
On November 23 2012 22:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote: when do Zergs usually take their 3rd against 1rax expand? I cant seem to find a safe timing to do so, mass hellions usually fucks me up hard. In the current meta game I wait until I've got lair tech to be safe. This allows an Overseer to be out in case there are cloaked Banshees and I generally have made quite a few lings and a baneling nest while transitioning just in case mass Hellions, or some other all-in comes from the Terran player. If you're struggling vs. Hellions throw down a Roach Warren around 6 minutes and make ~5 Roaches. They'll turn those Hellions around nicely.  | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On November 23 2012 22:32 Oboeman wrote: You are always selecting the hatcheries to spend larva, so you always see the larva count. When the larva count jumps (ie when you make a bunch at once), its time to inject. Also any time you have a hatchery in vision it still has the larva spawn progress bar on top. I like to keep on hatchery on its own hotkey as well for keeping an eye on larva progress, even though I macro with all hatches together. The larva count jump is basically how I do it. Problem is if your injects are not synchronized: you only have a smaller jump of 4 and you don't know which hatch needs inject. Also, the nice thing about tapping is that you are always aware of how much time is left and it's much harder to forget about it. The single hatch hotkey is a nice idea, as long as it's not the lair hatch and, again, you have injects in sync. For total control and out of sync, I guess korean method is the best. But I do love some of the advantages of camera hotkeys over hatches, especially not loosing current selection. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On November 23 2012 22:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote: when do Zergs usually take their 3rd against 1rax expand? I cant seem to find a safe timing to do so, mass hellions usually fucks me up hard. I used to really struggle with this. In the end I followed life's playstyle that he used in the previous GSL season. I drone to 36 then I make around 30 lings, I use them to pressure the Terran's natural and take my third and drone heavy behind it. This gives me nice map presence and totally negates any pressure any Terran is planning on putting on. It also lets you get good vision of what he is doing, ie all in etc. To be honest I would make 4/5 Terrans lift their CC when I hit, I can go through my replays and upload some for you if you want. If you do a bulk of damage then you can either throw down a roach warren and go for the kill or just macro up (important to throw some spores down when 3rd is up because their only real way to get back in once you have done significant damage is through a cloaked banshee). This is at mid masters level. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:47 zasg wrote: I used to really struggle with this. In the end I followed life's playstyle that he used in the previous GSL season. I drone to 36 then I make around 30 lings, I use them to pressure the Terran's natural and take my third and drone heavy behind it. This gives me nice map presence and totally negates any pressure any Terran is planning on putting on. It also lets you get good vision of what he is doing, ie all in etc. To be honest I would make 4/5 Terrans lift their CC when I hit, I can go through my replays and upload some for you if you want. If you do a bulk of damage then you can either throw down a roach warren and go for the kill or just macro up (important to throw some spores down when 3rd is up because their only real way to get back in once you have done significant damage is through a cloaked banshee). This is at mid masters level. I'm still trying to define my style and sometimes I think it would be better to play like this. Would you say this is a style that requires a lot of multitasking and apm to play? Because I used to think very passive style is best to learn step-by-step and requires less apm, but when he is pressing me all over with hellion/banshee, this also requires multitasking, maybe even more. Also, maybe you get more repetition in your games if you have the initiative. Instead of having your build order messed up everytime he puts pressure, you dictate game flow,so you find yourself more often in similar situation at X minutes into the game. So this is making me consider trying an agressive style even as a noob. Since you seem to have changes styles, which one you find harder and more likely to have your builds messed up? | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:47 zasg wrote: I used to really struggle with this. In the end I followed life's playstyle that he used in the previous GSL season. I drone to 36 then I make around 30 lings, I use them to pressure the Terran's natural and take my third and drone heavy behind it. This gives me nice map presence and totally negates any pressure any Terran is planning on putting on. It also lets you get good vision of what he is doing, ie all in etc. To be honest I would make 4/5 Terrans lift their CC when I hit, I can go through my replays and upload some for you if you want. If you do a bulk of damage then you can either throw down a roach warren and go for the kill or just macro up (important to throw some spores down when 3rd is up because their only real way to get back in once you have done significant damage is through a cloaked banshee). This is at mid masters level. I play similarly getting 2 base saturation on 1 gas and making a round of speedlings (like 20) whilst taking my 3rd. Is there any advantage going beyond 20 lings though? Assuming my opponent has a wall-of at his natural. Do you need more vs good hellion control? I'm mostly losing a lot of drones vs cloack banshees because my queens are spread out and spores are pretty clunky, do you need additional queens rather than spores? (like 5 for 3 base). | ||
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blackwaltz3
54 Posts
This is a ZvP, a protoss immortal sentry all in. I understand that there have been many guides on this and I have read through them but, I thought that this game was a bit different. My opponent basically waited until 15 minutes to attack and was nearly maxed out and I was pretty lost. I understand the need to bait forcefield early on and I had a small force trying to do that but I found it very difficult because the forcefield might trap some units. I would like help with how I should have played out the game or engage the army. | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:23 blackwaltz3 wrote: http://drop.sc/278309 This is a ZvP, a protoss immortal sentry all in. I understand that there have been many guides on this and I have read through them but, I thought that this game was a bit different. My opponent basically waited until 15 minutes to attack and was nearly maxed out and I was pretty lost. I understand the need to bait forcefield early on and I had a small force trying to do that but I found it very difficult because the forcefield might trap some units. I would like help with how I should have played out the game or engage the army. You did not have enough fungals. With this army composition he is absolutely helpless against infestors. If you have about 10 fungals ready + few spines there is absolutely no way for him to ever attack into this, you dont even have to engage his army, all you need to do is chain fungal him when he is trying to get up the ramp and he loses the game. So what you did wrong was 1) not the best macro 2) overproduced roaches when you needed infestors 3) few spiness on natural ramp would help as well 4) you should have used part of your army to counter attack him, this way he cant move back after he sees you got infestors out (which should be his decision). | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
On November 24 2012 21:18 Saechiis wrote: I play similarly getting 2 base saturation on 1 gas and making a round of speedlings (like 20) whilst taking my 3rd. Is there any advantage going beyond 20 lings though? Assuming my opponent has a wall-of at his natural. Do you need more vs good hellion control? I'm mostly losing a lot of drones vs cloack banshees because my queens are spread out and spores are pretty clunky, do you need additional queens rather than spores? (like 5 for 3 base). I usually drop 2 Spores at the 8 minute mark if I saw reactored Hellions since it keeps me safe from a single cloaked Banshee until my Lair finishes and I can morph an Overseer. Placement of the spores is key though, make sure you're covering the outsides of your base where the Banshee could fly behind the mineral line and pick off drones. I'm fine with leaving the space between my main and nat exposed to cloak because there should be no units there, only buildings, and by the time the Banshee could kill something an Overseer will be out. I do this with 4 Queens. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:23 blackwaltz3 wrote: http://drop.sc/278309 This is a ZvP, a protoss immortal sentry all in. I understand that there have been many guides on this and I have read through them but, I thought that this game was a bit different. My opponent basically waited until 15 minutes to attack and was nearly maxed out and I was pretty lost. I understand the need to bait forcefield early on and I had a small force trying to do that but I found it very difficult because the forcefield might trap some units. I would like help with how I should have played out the game or engage the army. Lol, interesting strat from him. Obviously, bad unit comp for you. He had 9 immortals and you had 41 roaches. Basically you produce way too many roach and delay your tech too much. I know how easy it is to just build roaches when you're waiting for him to push; I've been there many times, but it's really bad vs a comp like this. This is why I like to throw down a hydra den for safety vs toss; colossi play is not always the way they will go, and when they don't have colossi/templar hydra/ling or roach/hydra comps are very strong. Getting range and max'ing on hydra/ling/roach would do really well vs this. But yes, more infestors would be good. Also when he finally pushes into your base, you have a bunch of 4-range units with no flank. Flanking would have helped tremendously, but with your comp it probably still would not have been enough. Also I'd have to check again, but I think you could have had better ups. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
I'm still trying to define my style and sometimes I think it would be better to play like this. Would you say this is a style that requires a lot of multitasking and apm to play? Because I used to think very passive style is best to learn step-by-step and requires less apm, but when he is pressing me all over with hellion/banshee, this also requires multitasking, maybe even more. Also, maybe you get more repetition in your games if you have the initiative. Instead of having your build order messed up everytime he puts pressure, you dictate game flow,so you find yourself more often in similar situation at X minutes into the game. So this is making me consider trying an agressive style even as a noob. Since you seem to have changes styles, which one you find harder and more likely to have your builds messed up? The main thing this build requires is knowing when to look at the battle and when to shift back to the base to set stuff up. You need to be checking the lings sending a command switching to base doing injects making a lair etc and then switching back again. APM is a relative thing, I generally sit around 110apm so I am not a super fast player and I manage to do this build with no problems whatsoever. I have found this build much easier to handle then the passive gasless build, the main reason is with this build you dictate what to build and when, whereas the gasless build you are trying to eek out as many drones as possible. To be honest I got really frustrated with dieing to allins because I didn't scout it properly or they denied my vision. This way I get to dictate how the game plays out. I play similarly getting 2 base saturation on 1 gas and making a round of speedlings (like 20) whilst taking my 3rd. Is there any advantage going beyond 20 lings though? Assuming my opponent has a wall-of at his natural. Do you need more vs good hellion control? I'm mostly losing a lot of drones vs cloack banshees because my queens are spread out and spores are pretty clunky, do you need additional queens rather than spores? (like 5 for 3 base). I find 20 lings they can defend pretty easily with the first two hellions and a hand full of marines, especially if you wait to get saturation on two bases. I go way before saturation on the second base, my standard build is to get to 36 build three overlords, make lings till around 55~ and then gogogo gadget aggression while droning and expanding like a madman. This normally hits just as the first two hellions come out or just before depending on their build. You can either sit to the side, wait for the hellions to leave and then attack or just go and kill them. I generally never try to enter the main base unless they leave the depot down. Normally the terran can defend really easily in their main because of all the chokes etc. There shouldn't be any cloak banshees out with this build, well unless they rush banshees. I drop one spore per base, but in saying that after speed I got 1 drone on gas to get fast lair into mutas, which means I can have overseers out. If I didn't go lair I would probably throw more spores down. | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On November 23 2012 22:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote: when do Zergs usually take their 3rd against 1rax expand? I cant seem to find a safe timing to do so, mass hellions usually fucks me up hard. You can also get the third at 36 supply after the overlord. As long as it goes down around 6:00 it will be in place early enough to put up spores against banshees. | ||
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