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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On September 20 2012 00:41 Iceblade-X wrote:one is considering do to zerg after much problems with reinforcement and map control with terran and protoss, atm im ranked 8th in bronze because clearly the system doesn't want me any higher and prefers i suffer, but i understand how zerg works and im sick and tired of cheesers and pro's hanging around that league, kinda like when gandalf stands on the bridge "you shall not pass!!", except its blizzard...., i just need a learning curve and some tips on early creep and hatchery control when expanding early and this is key for zerg, and before anybody starts making fun of my ranking, ive been a platinum 2v2 player with a friend and had good standings in silver and gold in other modes in the past, and don't go and say "stop posting and go rank up its easy" no it bloody isn't, because i face all kinds of oponents, strangely enough i haven't faced a voidray or cloaked banshee in my mineral line for quite some time, just constant cheeses whenever i bludgen the oponent's army with a decent composition, so i hope to go zerg and end my bronze career, besides having zerg in other modes is helpful because of early aggression and a personal fav tact i like from zerg, even if the oponent does it to me, baneling bombing  P.S big shoutout to huskystarcraft *hugs*
My tip to all bronze players is to focus on mechanics and using hotkeys. Also Having the attitude of "I know how to play zerg" is bad. If you get to master league one day. You'll look back on that statement and laugh at how foolish you were.
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On September 20 2012 05:21 ATOMICfy wrote:
how can i hold off the all in by the zerg.
i lost 3 games in a row when the opponent went all in with roaches and lings when they saw my hatch first...
I don't know exactly what level you are but I am going to assume you are high gold/ low platinum because that is when I first started having this trouble. First thing is I do not recommend you going hatch first. The pros can hatch first in zvz but their defensive micro is superb. At any lower level getting the zergling speed and baneling nests earlier are essential. Also you should make sure you get a good scout off on him, either with your overlord or a scouting drone. If you see a roach warren before his expo then you can assume he is 7 roach rushing followed with ling reinforcements. If he for some reason getting a roach warren first and then expoing you will be ahead regardless once you see that. vs a 7 roach rush I usually throw down 2 spines at my natural as soon at it pops (14 gas/14 pool/ 21 hatch is my build) and pumping lings. Your first round of lings you can actually set of to the side and counter attack into his base after the roaches move out. Either he comes back with the roaches to clean it up (in which case you are waaaaaaaay ahead) or he all-ins and you deflect it with the spines/extra speedlings. EZ win!
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Hello.
I just got promoted to diamond today, but I've been there before.
Anyway, I got some questions for y'all.
1. How do I deal with Banshees vs. a meching Terran?
Not really worker-harassing Banshees, but rather the ones that fly around trying to pick off Infestors and that kind of stuf?
Fungals pretty bad vs. Banshees and if they spread out, you have to waste lots of energy to get them down..
Should I build Spores infront of my bases? Like where the rallye point is? Or make ~2 extra Queens?
2. How can you EFFECTIVELY deny Hellions from coming into your bases? Wall off every base with Evos, just make Spines?
3. When to add Hydras into Roach/ Festor mix in ZvZ? Do I have to?
4. Some more tips for a Diamond player?
Thanks in advance
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1. How do I deal with Banshees vs. a meching Terran?
Not really worker-harassing Banshees, but rather the ones that fly around trying to pick off Infestors and that kind of stuf?
Fungals pretty bad vs. Banshees and if they spread out, you have to waste lots of energy to get them down..
Should I build Spores infront of my bases? Like where the rallye point is? Or make ~2 extra Queens?
FG is great vs banshees, so it IT. You should probably be using IT more than FG. Nowadays I rarely use FG in any match-up, IT is just so much stronger in general. I don't think spores are necessary, you probably have 6 queens out if terran went banshees, just add an overseer with your creep spreading queens to deal with the banshees and then your mutas/infestors will be out in time before he has more banshees that can deal with 3-4 queens. I usually make extra queens vs mech because I don't ever make roaches against mech. You can check out my profile for my zvt guide, there's a few reps on dealing with mech with banshees and defending hellions in there.
2. How can you EFFECTIVELY deny Hellions from coming into your bases? Wall off every base with Evos, just make Spines?
Yea a couple spines in your bases. Once you have your third up and running you should be putting like 2-4 spines at every new expo, including the third. Leave the infestors you make by the base he'd likely run by, have your army by the other one. Shouldn't be too hard to stop run-bys. If you decide to push out you should put down some spines so hellion counterattacks dont ruin you.
3. When to add Hydras into Roach/ Festor mix in ZvZ? Do I have to?
Depends, but somewhere around 160 to 180 supply up. They are supplemental. Getting hydras depends on what you want to do. If you plan to be super super aggressive, stay on lair tech 2/2, just stay on roaches or roach/infestor and do lots of multi-pronged attacks, dont get hydras. If you are defending someone doing that, you'll want some hydras of course. You can also cut hydra production in favor of quicker hive tech. I've seen some people will mass roach/infestor and spines for broodlords.
Basically for a macro game you want hydras though. Not adding hydras i think implies sort of all-innish, hyperaggressive mass roach multi-pronged attack play.
Congrats on your win.
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Thank you!!
Not only did you answer the questions I asked, but also some I forgot (aka IT vs. Fungal).
Thanks for that!
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Im looking for a nice zvz all-in. Something like roach speedbane maybe?
Does anyone have a guide/bo?
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On September 21 2012 23:08 gronnelg wrote:
Im looking for a nice zvz all-in. Something like roach speedbane maybe?
Does anyone have a guide/bo?
Check out the guides posted by TangSC. It's a fairly good series of guides and he includes information about the follow up so aren't completely "all in".
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What should I do against protoss when they go 1 gate robo into 4 gates (off of one base), and push around 8 minutes with 3+ immortals and sentries + warp prism for warp ins. I've played against it a couple times, and i've even seen it coming and still couldn't hold.
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On September 22 2012 04:06 Gucci_Mane wrote:
What should I do against protoss when they go 1 gate robo into 4 gates (off of one base), and push around 8 minutes with 3+ immortals and sentries + warp prism for warp ins. I've played against it a couple times, and i've even seen it coming and still couldn't hold.
Need to be more specific. Is this 1-gate expo? FFE?
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^
"off of one base"
No expo. It's a 1 base sentry/immortal + 4gate all in.
When I've played against this, I just defended with roach/ling. He stays on 1 base for so long that your 2 base economy has long kicked in. As usual, when you scout gate first you take gas, blah blah defend early pressure with queen/spine. I've never lost to it, but I've only played against it like 3 times. Just roach/ling, and engage somewhere where you can get a good flank (ie NOT at your natural ramp).
You could also basetrade, but you shouldn't need to. This is just a shitty version of 2 base sentry/immortal. TBH, you could take a gasless fast third and mass speedlings to hold this because it hits so late. This should only work on a map like cloud, if you let him get to your natural ramp/choke.
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mid/high master zerg here..can't find a proper counter to immortal sentry all in..tried the symbol build where you drop ontop of it, but if they're really clumped, your units won't drop cause of that one build that nerfed bane drops way back...mass roach with flanks and whatnot seems to not cut it, they have infinite force fields and the more they warp in the more momentum they get...infestors come too late, and don't do enough, they just force field and then get shield regen and you're out of energy..idk...hydras maybe ? they're so terrible, tho..
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On September 22 2012 04:06 Gucci_Mane wrote:
What should I do against protoss when they go 1 gate robo into 4 gates (off of one base), and push around 8 minutes with 3+ immortals and sentries + warp prism for warp ins. I've played against it a couple times, and i've even seen it coming and still couldn't hold.
Don't tech against a 1-base protoss. Get yourself 35 drones (32 minerals, 3 on gas) and then just spend your money. A lot of spines at the front. A macro hatch. A spore to prevent an elevator. Extra queens. A ton of zerglings, keep pumping them out, and try to keep a bunch outside of your base to counter/flank. As the gas comes in, start +1 attack, then lair (both for the future, not for the defense) but don't take extra geysers because that taxes your minerals too much.
If you read his build and know it's coming, get to 35 drones as quickly as possible before investing in anything else. The main threat of this build is that you will overreact to a 1 base threat and start making units early and then won't have your 35 drones, and won't be able to support the 3 hatch queen/spine/zergling production you need.
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On September 22 2012 05:45 nenshoua wrote:
mid/high master zerg here..can't find a proper counter to immortal sentry all in..tried the symbol build where you drop ontop of it, but if they're really clumped, your units won't drop cause of that one build that nerfed bane drops way back...mass roach with flanks and whatnot seems to not cut it, they have infinite force fields and the more they warp in the more momentum they get...infestors come too late, and don't do enough, they just force field and then get shield regen and you're out of energy..idk...hydras maybe ? they're so terrible, tho..
I've finally started having some success against this using NesTea's fast mutas build, taking a gas straight after your third, then 3 more at 6:30 and 2 more at 7:30, you should be able to get at least 10 mutas out around 10:30-11:00, if he's moving out with immortal sentry pull all drones except the ones on gas from your third and mass spines at your natural while base trading with muta ling.
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That sounds like an option...is that the only way though, it's pretty extreme..
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On September 22 2012 05:45 nenshoua wrote:
mid/high master zerg here..can't find a proper counter to immortal sentry all in..tried the symbol build where you drop ontop of it, but if they're really clumped, your units won't drop cause of that one build that nerfed bane drops way back...mass roach with flanks and whatnot seems to not cut it, they have infinite force fields and the more they warp in the more momentum they get...infestors come too late, and don't do enough, they just force field and then get shield regen and you're out of energy..idk...hydras maybe ? they're so terrible, tho..
Remember it is an all-in so almost no matter what you do you will come out ahead. Like even if he kills one base you can come out ahead assuming you transition into a late game plan properly (and are doing a 3 quick hatch style). When I see it, I know it is not going to hit until about 10:00 so I delay roach warren get lair earlier and drone like crazy. Then I spam spines, usually like 10 at each ramp at 9:00 (seems extreme but if you have been droning like crazy and good injects you can redrone instantly). Then make 2 rounds of roaches or so and you are set. Start getting infestor tech up and get dem upgrades. You are way ahead at this point even with the huge investment into defense.
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When turtling to Broodlord/Infestor in ZvP, is it best to spend your money on mass Ling/Roach while teching or spending the money on Spines and Infestors. I feel like Spine Infestor is susceptible to Collosi timings before Broods and if you do no damage with Ling/Roach, you'll also be susceptible to a counter attack. Also when should I start my melee/carapace upgrades?
In ZvT, what should the order be for me to spend my first couple hundred gas on. I usually go Melee and Carapace upgrade before Speedling upgrade then Lair then Bane nest but if they do a Hellion runby, I take alot of damage
ZvZ: What is the best timing to take a Third if trying to go for a late game Roach/Hydra/Infestor style (Heavy Roach upgrades into Infestors then into Hydra support). And when should I make a Bane nest?
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For a standard ZvP 3 hatch opening with 6 minute gases, is there a recommended time to start a queen for creep spreading? Currently at a Gold level, but want to incorporate some creep spread into my play as well.
It gets annoying when it gets to late game, and knowing that I should probably be spamming spines/spores to cover for broodlords but realising, "Hey I've got no creep to build it on!" lol.
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On September 22 2012 18:22 Weirdkid wrote:
For a standard ZvP 3 hatch opening with 6 minute gases, is there a recommended time to start a queen for creep spreading? Currently at a Gold level, but want to incorporate some creep spread into my play as well.
It gets annoying when it gets to late game, and knowing that I should probably be spamming spines/spores to cover for broodlords but realising, "Hey I've got no creep to build it on!" lol.
Plant a tumour down with your third queen before sending her to your third.
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On September 22 2012 16:40 raybasto wrote:
When turtling to Broodlord/Infestor in ZvP, is it best to spend your money on mass Ling/Roach while teching or spending the money on Spines and Infestors. I feel like Spine Infestor is susceptible to Collosi timings before Broods and if you do no damage with Ling/Roach, you'll also be susceptible to a counter attack. Also when should I start my melee/carapace upgrades?
In ZvT, what should the order be for me to spend my first couple hundred gas on. I usually go Melee and Carapace upgrade before Speedling upgrade then Lair then Bane nest but if they do a Hellion runby, I take alot of damage
ZvZ: What is the best timing to take a Third if trying to go for a late game Roach/Hydra/Infestor style (Heavy Roach upgrades into Infestors then into Hydra support). And when should I make a Bane nest?
1. Spine/infestor is always the better option, judging from what you wrote out I think you dont get the broods fast enough, as the spines are there to buy you that precious time. Get that fourth base faster when you realize he's going for 3 base macro play, and start corruptors when your greater spire is at 50% Making a bunch of lings is ok since it gives you more options, more safety, and doesnt slow down your tech, but dont get roaches excessively, they eat your gas and supply
2. I like to get my upgrades in ZVP once i realize that there is no gateway all-in coming my way. Vs tech all-ins ill get melee but otherwise id rather use that gas for roaches than upgrades so I can defend the all in easier. With that said my gas goes speed>lair>armor>make an extra evo+melee, or lair first vs tech
3 Speed>upgrades>lair belials zvt guide should help you with the hellions and a good opener
4 Assuming you did 15hatch15gas15pool, take gas@52 gas, get speed, and then make the bane nest with your next 50. Your third is going to be taken either in a fast third, or roach/infestor style. Fast third, you make it once you hit a good drone count (usually 16 mins per base), have at least 4 banes and larva to make reactive lings to defend. Roach infestor...I actually dont know, i havent played to much with that style. I assume youd make it once infestors with the upgrade pop up
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Whatdya do if someone goes 1 port cloak banshee and reactor helions off one base?
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EPT
