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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On September 19 2012 05:53 ATOMICfy wrote:
I lose to the imortal and centry push;;;; how can i prevent from losing? i tried to go roaches and lings
and spines to back up the army(normally i get 2~3 spines or 5 when i see all in).....
currently i go 15 hatch in to 16 pool and than gas near 30 ish mark....
and i try to max out fast as i can and attack with plus one missile or melee attk...
but everytime i am agasint the toss, 80% of them go mass imotal and centry push and i cant deal wiht it...
plz help T^T
P.S. my english is bit sloppy since i am korean ( although i am only in plat T^T)
Hello, I'm also a Plat zerg. I'm just give you some advice based off of my experiences. One of the user's here (Belial88) has also written a ZvP guide that I believe has a section dedicated to the P Immo/Sentry composition.
My thoughts regarding other stuff:
1) I think a lot of people here will tell you that it is very dangerous to go hatch first versus a Protoss. Cannon rushes by P can really make you miserable. I believe the general consensus is to go 14 or 15 pool into somethinglike a 16 hatch (or whenever you get rid of the pylon at your natural).
2) I feel like creep spread is very important against a two-base P. Creep spread always helps, but it does even moreso in these situations. For one, Protoss will have to place the reinforcing pylon farther away. Also, it will be easier for you to establish spines in a more forward position and you can also attempt to get surrounds more easily on creep.
3) I don't know if this applies to you (I'd have to see a replay), but I have a really bad tendency to drop spines, but then occasionally fight outside the range of the spines for whatever stupid reason. Be sure not to do that =P.
I hope at least some of this helps, but I would strongly recommend reading Belial's guide to learn more about how to deal with your problem specifically.
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one is considering going to zerg after much problems with reinforcement and map control with terran and protoss, atm im ranked 8th in bronze because clearly the system doesn't want me any higher and prefers i suffer, but i understand how zerg works and im sick and tired of cheesers and pro's hanging around that league, kinda like when gandalf stands on the bridge "you shall not pass!!", except its blizzard...., i just need a learning curve and some tips on early creep and hatchery control when expanding early and this is key for zerg, and before anybody starts making fun of my ranking, ive been a platinum 2v2 player with a friend and had good standings in silver and gold in other modes in the past, and don't go and say "stop posting and go rank up its easy" no it bloody isn't, because i face all kinds of oponents, strangely enough i haven't faced a voidray or cloaked banshee in my mineral line for quite some time, just constant cheeses whenever i bludgen the oponent's army with a decent composition, so i hope to go zerg and end my bronze career, besides having zerg in other modes is helpful because of early aggression and a personal fav tact i like from zerg, even if the oponent does it to me, baneling bombing 
P.S big shoutout to huskystarcraft *hugs*
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On September 20 2012 00:41 Iceblade-X wrote:one is considering going to zerg after much problems with reinforcement and map control with terran and protoss, atm im ranked 8th in bronze because clearly the system doesn't want me any higher and prefers i suffer, but i understand how zerg works and im sick and tired of cheesers and pro's hanging around that league, kinda like when gandalf stands on the bridge "you shall not pass!!", except its blizzard...., i just need a learning curve and some tips on early creep and hatchery control when expanding early and this is key for zerg, and before anybody starts making fun of my ranking, ive been a platinum 2v2 player with a friend and had good standings in silver and gold in other modes in the past, and don't go and say "stop posting and go rank up its easy" no it bloody isn't, because i face all kinds of oponents, strangely enough i haven't faced a voidray or cloaked banshee in my mineral line for quite some time, just constant cheeses whenever i bludgen the oponent's army with a decent composition, so i hope to go zerg and end my bronze career, besides having zerg in other modes is helpful because of early aggression and a personal fav tact i like from zerg, even if the oponent does it to me, baneling bombing P.S big shoutout to huskystarcraft *hugs*
i sent you a PM.
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Germany426 Posts
Hey,
what is the right answer in ZvZ when I want to go Roach, when I know my opponent is going for Mutas? Roach/Infestor or Roach/Hydra? I found that Roach/Infestor is pretty hard to deal with mutas, as you need quite a few of fungals to kill those mutas and if you don't hit all they are still there. Roach/Hydra works better in my experience against 6-10 mutas, but if the muta players just keeps doing mutas, and harrasses with them without flying into my hydras blindly before having 20 or so, he has the better army. I really wonder wether Roach -> Hydra -> Infestor would be the right thing to do as this would be quite a gas heavy investment.
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On September 20 2012 01:56 roym899 wrote:
Hey,
what is the right answer in ZvZ when I want to go Roach, when I know my opponent is going for Mutas? Roach/Infestor or Roach/Hydra? I found that Roach/Infestor is pretty hard to deal with mutas, as you need quite a few of fungals to kill those mutas and if you don't hit all they are still there. Roach/Hydra works better in my experience against 6-10 mutas, but if the muta players just keeps doing mutas, and harrasses with them without flying into my hydras blindly before having 20 or so, he has the better army. I really wonder wether Roach -> Hydra -> Infestor would be the right thing to do as this would be quite a gas heavy investment.
If you're making roaches (or any units for that matter), you have to attack him. Roaches have a high retaining value, which allows you to get spores up and hydras for muta defense. If you can get your 3rd up and not take too much damage, then you'll be ahead in tech because he has to switch out.
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On September 20 2012 01:56 roym899 wrote:
Hey,
what is the right answer in ZvZ when I want to go Roach, when I know my opponent is going for Mutas? Roach/Infestor or Roach/Hydra? I found that Roach/Infestor is pretty hard to deal with mutas, as you need quite a few of fungals to kill those mutas and if you don't hit all they are still there. Roach/Hydra works better in my experience against 6-10 mutas, but if the muta players just keeps doing mutas, and harrasses with them without flying into my hydras blindly before having 20 or so, he has the better army. I really wonder wether Roach -> Hydra -> Infestor would be the right thing to do as this would be quite a gas heavy investment.
Infestors should be enough to scare him away, you are supposed to be able to take a third safely behind infestors queens and spores if you don't have one already. If you go roach hydra you basically have to do a quick timing and no infestors means that if he scouts it he just has to make banelings and he wins against any pushes you try.
Besides muta players typically transition into double evo roaches and later on infestors after muta. If you delay infestors too much you will get them at the same time as him, while on less economy.
I almost only play muta in ZvZ, and people who go roach hydra are very easy to counter unless they already have a big advantage. Even then speed banelings destroy hydras and the mutas kill the roaches.
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On September 20 2012 01:56 roym899 wrote:
Hey,
what is the right answer in ZvZ when I want to go Roach, when I know my opponent is going for Mutas? Roach/Infestor or Roach/Hydra? I found that Roach/Infestor is pretty hard to deal with mutas, as you need quite a few of fungals to kill those mutas and if you don't hit all they are still there. Roach/Hydra works better in my experience against 6-10 mutas, but if the muta players just keeps doing mutas, and harrasses with them without flying into my hydras blindly before having 20 or so, he has the better army. I really wonder wether Roach -> Hydra -> Infestor would be the right thing to do as this would be quite a gas heavy investment.
Like the guy above me said, Infestors are by far the better choice. You don't need to kill the mutas, you just need to keep them away from doing damage. If they engage your base, you can pretty easily kill them with fungals and queens; usually having 1 spore at each base is sufficient. Infestors are also much better against a roach transition he could have planned.
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how can i hold off the all in by the zerg.
i lost 3 games in a row when the opponent went all in with roaches and lings when they saw my hatch first...
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also how can i prevent he toss form blocking my ramp with three pylons and canons behind it?
i won few games when i all in-ed with bunch of roaches but than some games i lost.... plz help
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On September 20 2012 05:23 ATOMICfy wrote:
also how can i prevent he toss form blocking my ramp with three pylons and canons behind it?
i won few games when i all in-ed with bunch of roaches but than some games i lost.... plz help
You may want to start the habit of having a drone patrol at the ramp to avoid those silly 3 pylons block
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A ZvP question:
As my hatch usually goes down at like at least 19 supply after a 14p 15h attempt that was pylon blocked (i.e. after 4 lings, a queen and the obligatory ovie), how much worse really is it to go 14g14p speedling expand, aiming for 21 expand or so?
I mean, nobody does that, and I'm sure that it's bad, I just don't know why...
Stardroid
Space
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On September 20 2012 06:00 Stardroid wrote:
A ZvP question:
As my hatch usually goes down at like at least 19 supply after a 14p 15h attempt that was pylon blocked (i.e. after 4 lings, a queen and the obligatory ovie), how much worse really is it to go 14g14p speedling expand, aiming for 21 expand or so?
I mean, nobody does that, and I'm sure that it's bad, I just don't know why...
Stardroid
Space
That's like shooting yourself in the foot with a rocket launcher.
The ling timing with 14/14 is the same as a 15 pool (if not slightly later), and you're a drone less, AND you're mining gas. I like to send 2 drones out, and I often get a kill on the probe. I usually go 16 overlord if there's a probe at my natural, so I can fight it for quite a while without delaying my build too heavily. You could also drone scout to deny his expansion for a long time, and getting 4 lings out then expanding doesn't hurt you too much. It sucks, all Protoss should do it to safely nexus first, but it's no reason to go 14/14. If you really don't like it, try an 11 overpool->18 hatch. It's a decend build, but third base timings are different. I'm not an expert on this.
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Because we just dont need speed at that givin time, and getting it that early KILLS a zerg's econ
If you need an answer to a pylon block, just make an OV immediately and make 4lings to take down the pylon, and make a queen @450 mins
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hmm ok then! thanks for the info!
Stardroid
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Hey guys, quick question.
Is it me or the ZvZ match up has swung back into very early pressure and/or cheesy builds?
Because last 10 ZvZ at diamond level all had their pool dropped somewhere between 6 and 10
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Nah thats just ladder being ladder
Metagame is decided by the highest level of games and recently I have seen many pros playing the 3-base games with only light pressure at most
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Hi I have been having a lot of problems with the terran siege. I honestly have 0 idea on how to break this whenever I am contained to two or even three bases. I have tried muta/ling/bane with no success. I was just wondering if anyone had any tips for me or maybe some replays where this is used.
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From what I understand, it takes a while for the metagame to seep into lower levels. Like non-KR servers will be a week or so behind KR, and then high masters will take like a couple weeks, maybe a month, and then lower down, (masters, diamond, etc) may take a month or so. I think popular games, like a particular cannon rush positioning on a particular map and spawn at the highly watched finals, might come in every level instantly, or a certain build used in the finals, but those are the exceptions (ie something like mass air might be incorporated quicker than something more macro oriented/basic like 6 queen, third before pool, cc first, hellion/banshee, etc).
I mean I didn't see hellion/banshee at all when it was first used at pro level. Nowadays, it's all you see, but it's already a bit old. Hasn't necessarily been replaced yet it seems.
Hi I have been having a lot of problems with the terran siege. I honestly have 0 idea on how to break this whenever I am contained to two or even three bases. I have tried muta/ling/bane with no success. I was just wondering if anyone had any tips for me or maybe some replays where this is used.
This doesn't really tell me anything.
You need to post the replay, and explain what happened. What did Terran open, what did you open, what did you scout (did you even bother scouting? even if you dont sac an overlord there are multiple sources of information that you should be getting that should paint the picture for you), where do you think you lost, etc.
Ling/bane/muta has nothing to do with why you lost though. You can't just write off literally 50% of zerg strategy because you lost using it.
Yea I really have no clue what you are talking about. is this a 1 base all-in, a 2 base all-in, the 3 base pre-hive push, is this you engaging poorly or what.
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On September 20 2012 13:28 Maxamix wrote:
Hey guys, quick question.
Is it me or the ZvZ match up has swung back into very early pressure and/or cheesy builds?
Because last 10 ZvZ at diamond level all had their pool dropped somewhere between 6 and 10
Actually I think that eventually people in lower levels make their own metagame. The pros are able to do things like 15 hatch/14 pool and then drone really hard in zvz because they have superb ling/bling control and map awareness so they know they will be safe. However, at lower levels you don't really have those things. I open 14/14 and I have a nice baneling bust I do if people try to follow the pros and hatch first. No one I play against has good enough ling/bling control to hold it off. People don't just blindly follow the pros always, eventually they will find what works on their level. At your level people are starting to get good enough to follow the metagame but there are also those that will take advantage of this by say 10 pooling vs your metagamed hatch first because people at that level (generally) don't have the drone micro to hold that off and come out ahead.
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On September 20 2012 06:00 Stardroid wrote:
A ZvP question:
As my hatch usually goes down at like at least 19 supply after a 14p 15h attempt that was pylon blocked (i.e. after 4 lings, a queen and the obligatory ovie), how much worse really is it to go 14g14p speedling expand, aiming for 21 expand or so?
I mean, nobody does that, and I'm sure that it's bad, I just don't know why...
Stardroid
Space
Getting gas that early cuts into your mineral count (and therefore drone count) more that it would seem. Therefore, it puts your econ behind by a lot. Also, how would getting speedlings help against pylon block? they do same damage so... they get chase down that pylon trying to run away?
But yeah the Spanishiwa style ice fisher has come to influence zvp and zvt because you get so many more drones. you can saturate 2 base about 1 minute 30 seconds faster (by my probably sub-optimal trial and error).
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EPT
