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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On October 27 2010 06:29 MrBitter wrote:
Let's talk about overpool in ZvZ.
Hatch first is getting extremely common. On some maps, its almost automatic.
Overpool turns that into an autowin in most cases.
BO:
10 Overlord
10 Pool
Drone to 13
6+queen, putting us at 18/18
and then expand.
Obviously this will get squashed by almost any pool first build, but against hatch first, it establishes an instant advantage, as lings are guaranteed to be in your opponents base before he's able to start his first zerglings.
Discuss? Wouldn't it be more effective to simply do a 13 pool, and do some sort of crawler play similar to a 6-pool if you spot hatch first? The way I see it, a 13 pool finishes 40-45 seconds before a hatch first, so your lings will get there at the same time his lings spawn, but he'll have to pull his drones for 40 secs to prevent those crawlers meanwhile.
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Hi,
Everyone seems to say that the ling/bling/muta is godlike, I have tried this in the unit tester and well, though the zerg ends up winning, it isn't like the terran is steamrolled over.
Considering zerg's have ling/bling/muta, what is the sequence that you send the units in? (how do you micro the three). Just say terran have 10 marines, 10 maurauders, 2 thors and 5 tanks sieged.
Approximately what is the unit composition you should have and how to micro?
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Hi,
Everyone seems to say that the ling/bling/muta is godlike, I have tried this in the unit tester and well, though the zerg ends up winning, it isn't like the terran is steamrolled over.
Considering zerg's have ling/bling/muta, what is the sequence that you send the units in? (how do you micro the three). Just say terran have 10 marines, 10 maurauders, 2 thors and 5 tanks sieged.
Approximately what is the unit composition you should have and how to micro?
Or is the baneling in overlords better?
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So I've been watching the GSL and most zergs seem to be going 10 drones then ovie.. i thought 9/10 ovie was better.. which one is better?
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On October 27 2010 12:08 asin wrote:
Hi,
Everyone seems to say that the ling/bling/muta is godlike, I have tried this in the unit tester and well, though the zerg ends up winning, it isn't like the terran is steamrolled over.
Considering zerg's have ling/bling/muta, what is the sequence that you send the units in? (how do you micro the three). Just say terran have 10 marines, 10 maurauders, 2 thors and 5 tanks sieged.
Approximately what is the unit composition you should have and how to micro?
Or is the baneling in overlords better?
Send in the zerglings first to soak up damage for your banelings as they come in right behind them. Don't send your banelings in too far behind the speedlings, because the speedlings die pretty fast, and you need them to tank damage while your banelings get in position to kill the marines. Absolutely do not a-move your banelings. Just right click them and follow the marines wherever they go. After you have the marines either running away, or dead, move in your mutas to magic box over the thors. All of your ground army should die, but once your mutas kill the thors and the marines are dead, they can finish off the marauders and tanks.
I'm not very familiar with the best way to use OL baneling drops during battle.
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9 ovie is better by 10-15 minerals... but 10 ovi gives more flexibility in case of cheese
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On October 27 2010 12:17 SirJebadiah wrote:
So I've been watching the GSL and most zergs seem to be going 10 drones then ovie.. i thought 9/10 ovie was better.. which one is better?
Ya I was wondering the same thing so I decided to test it out a couple days ago. I tested it out on Lost Temple and tried both 9/10 Overlord and 10/10 Overlord to see which one got me to 13 drones the quickest.
With 9/10 Overlord I had 13 Drones finished and ready to mine at 1:41.
With 10/10 Overlord I had 13 Drones finished and ready to mine at 1:41.
So it really doesn't matter... with 9/10 Ovy you get ur 11th and 12th drones sooner, with 10/10 Ovy you get ur 10th drone sooner. Both of them are viable options in my opinion.
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Where are good places to put spine crawlers at ur natural on Xel Naga Caverns? I have a lot of trouble in this area as it seems you cannot reasonably covier it without making like 5+ crawlers, if you put it in ur mineral lines they can snipe ur hatch, out front they can just run around, even with a decent surround they can simply run up ur ramp into ur main.
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On October 27 2010 12:42 DarthXX wrote:
Where are good places to put spine crawlers at ur natural on Xel Naga Caverns? I have a lot of trouble in this area as it seems you cannot reasonably covier it without making like 5+ crawlers, if you put it in ur mineral lines they can snipe ur hatch, out front they can just run around, even with a decent surround they can simply run up ur ramp into ur main.
Are we talking ZvZ? ZvT? ZvP?
Ideally you're going to be defending with zero spines, regardless. Obviously there are times where you'll have to add a couple, but without knowing more about your question, its hard to really give you an answer.
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On October 27 2010 12:08 asin wrote:
Hi,
Everyone seems to say that the ling/bling/muta is godlike, I have tried this in the unit tester and well, though the zerg ends up winning, it isn't like the terran is steamrolled over.
Considering zerg's have ling/bling/muta, what is the sequence that you send the units in? (how do you micro the three). Just say terran have 10 marines, 10 maurauders, 2 thors and 5 tanks sieged.
Approximately what is the unit composition you should have and how to micro?
Or is the baneling in overlords better?
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On October 27 2010 Tachion wrote:
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Send in the zerglings first to soak up damage for your banelings as they come in right behind them. Don't send your banelings in too far behind the speedlings, because the speedlings die pretty fast, and you need them to tank damage while your banelings get in position to kill the marines. Absolutely do not a-move your banelings. Just right click them and follow the marines wherever they go. After you have the marines either running away, or dead, move in your mutas to magic box over the thors. All of your ground army should die, but once your mutas kill the thors and the marines are dead, they can finish off the marauders and tanks.
I'm not very familiar with the best way to use OL baneling drops during battle
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Are roaches better for tanking then? Wouldn't the mutas help to take out the marauders who are also trying to kill the banelings? Only move them in when marines are out of range?
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On October 27 2010 13:49 asin wrote:
On October 27 2010 12:08 asin wrote:
Hi,
Everyone seems to say that the ling/bling/muta is godlike, I have tried this in the unit tester and well, though the zerg ends up winning, it isn't like the terran is steamrolled over.
Considering zerg's have ling/bling/muta, what is the sequence that you send the units in? (how do you micro the three). Just say terran have 10 marines, 10 maurauders, 2 thors and 5 tanks sieged.
Approximately what is the unit composition you should have and how to micro?
Or is the baneling in overlords better?
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On October 27 2010 Tachion wrote:
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Send in the zerglings first to soak up damage for your banelings as they come in right behind them. Don't send your banelings in too far behind the speedlings, because the speedlings die pretty fast, and you need them to tank damage while your banelings get in position to kill the marines. Absolutely do not a-move your banelings. Just right click them and follow the marines wherever they go. After you have the marines either running away, or dead, move in your mutas to magic box over the thors. All of your ground army should die, but once your mutas kill the thors and the marines are dead, they can finish off the marauders and tanks.
I'm not very familiar with the best way to use OL baneling drops during battle
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Are roaches better for tanking then? Wouldn't the mutas help to take out the marauders who are also trying to kill the banelings? Only move them in when marines are out of range?
Roach/Baneling/Muta is about as gas-intensive as it gets. Don't count on fielding that comp in every game.
Ling/Bling/Muta is really all you're going to need, though.
One thing in regards to the unit control - Don't just 1a with lings and then run in with banes afterward. You want your lings to actually run past your opponent, and then attack from behind, eliminating the possibility of your banes being endlessly kited.
More ideal than that would be setting up your attack so that your lings and banes are already on opposite sides of his ball. That's not always an option, though.
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On October 27 2010 13:43 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 12:42 DarthXX wrote:
Where are good places to put spine crawlers at ur natural on Xel Naga Caverns? I have a lot of trouble in this area as it seems you cannot reasonably covier it without making like 5+ crawlers, if you put it in ur mineral lines they can snipe ur hatch, out front they can just run around, even with a decent surround they can simply run up ur ramp into ur main. Are we talking ZvZ? ZvT? ZvP? Ideally you're going to be defending with zero spines, regardless. Obviously there are times where you'll have to add a couple, but without knowing more about your question, its hard to really give you an answer.
The situation I;m think of here is when you know a relatively early marine/marauder push is coming, speedlings are not enough to hold it off. At the same time it seems hardly feisible to make 5+ spines to cover the natural and main at this point.
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Hey 1300 Diamond Zerg her. Could anyone direct me to a ZvZ build I could use almost everytime I ladder? This is the only thing slowing my ladder progress right now. For example, when I ladder ever zvz is a loss pretty much with the occasional win by me
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On October 27 2010 14:33 Trowa789 wrote:
Hey 1300 Diamond Zerg her. Could anyone direct me to a ZvZ build I could use almost everytime I ladder? This is the only thing slowing my ladder progress right now. For example, when I ladder ever zvz is a loss pretty much with the occasional win by me
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163526
First couple pages are noobs being dumb. Its a great build. Use it.
On October 27 2010 14:20 DarthXX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 13:43 MrBitter wrote:On October 27 2010 12:42 DarthXX wrote:
Where are good places to put spine crawlers at ur natural on Xel Naga Caverns? I have a lot of trouble in this area as it seems you cannot reasonably covier it without making like 5+ crawlers, if you put it in ur mineral lines they can snipe ur hatch, out front they can just run around, even with a decent surround they can simply run up ur ramp into ur main. Are we talking ZvZ? ZvT? ZvP? Ideally you're going to be defending with zero spines, regardless. Obviously there are times where you'll have to add a couple, but without knowing more about your question, its hard to really give you an answer. The situation I;m think of here is when you know a relatively early marine/marauder push is coming, speedlings are not enough to hold it off. At the same time it seems hardly feisible to make 5+ spines to cover the natural and main at this point.
2-3 spines, slings + banes should be all you need in this situation.
The trick is scouting it, and realizing its coming, and then controlling your units correctly when it gets to your base.
Use your lings to lock his army in place, and then lol1a with the banes.
Easy win after you shut down the first push.
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i am a brand new zerg player and dont know many build orders and ZvZ tends to be my worst match up. my general build order is a FE into muta/ling/ and banelings depending on how they respond.
I am curious if someone has a good roach/infestor build order? or a Hydra/infestor, or a Roach/Hydra/Infestor since these are usually the builds i have some problems with.
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Anyone have a vid of zerg going against a fast phoenix build? I just don't know how to react properly really. Roaches? Hydras?
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I have quite a few questions so thanks in advance.
ZvZ:
Q1. What is the new standard build in ZvZ? I know in the past, Artosis had stated that Ling/Baneling is the best way to play ZvZ. Is this statement still true? I played 5-6 ZvZ games yesterday and everyone opened Roaches and everyone beat my Ling/Baneling opening (Canceled Baneling nest when Roach den was scouted) by simply turtling in their 1 base with Spinecrawlers while building a Roach army. Is this opening still viable? If not, what are optimal Roach openings?
Q2. This is a general Infestor question but is most prevalent in ZvZ. In ZvZ, I've been trying to go Infestor at tier 2 to counter Mutas but my Fungal Growths seem to wiff (miss) everytime. How do you target Mutas with Fungal Growth, do you have to lead with your Fungal Growths or can you just straight up target them?
ZvT:
Q3. I've been going a Ling/Baneling composition with light Mutas but it seems everyone has learned to outmicro Banelings. I have creep spread as one of my top priority so spreading creep isn't a problem. Is it better to go heavy Muta/Ling with light Banelings against mass Marine/Tank/Medivac or should I stick to my original composition?
ZvP:
Q4. I changed my strategy from a Roach heavy play to a more mass Muta/Ling play in ZvP. Is mass Muta/ling viable against a 200/200 Stalker/Sentry/Collosi ball or should I still try to eventually tech Ultras. Since Muta/ling is so gas heavy, I find it hard to tech to Ultras. What is a better playstyle; mass Roach or mass Muta/Ling
Thanks again for the help.
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On October 28 2010 10:03 raybasto wrote:
I have quite a few questions so thanks in advance.
ZvZ:
Q1. What is the new standard build in ZvZ? I know in the past, Artosis had stated that Ling/Baneling is the best way to play ZvZ. Is this statement still true? I played 5-6 ZvZ games yesterday and everyone opened Roaches and everyone beat my Ling/Baneling opening (Canceled Baneling nest when Roach den was scouted) by simply turtling in their 1 base with Spinecrawlers while building a Roach army. Is this opening still viable? If not, what are optimal Roach openings?
Q2. This is a general Infestor question but is most prevalent in ZvZ. In ZvZ, I've been trying to go Infestor at tier 2 to counter Mutas but my Fungal Growths seem to wiff (miss) everytime. How do you target Mutas with Fungal Growth, do you have to lead with your Fungal Growths or can you just straight up target them?
ZvT:
Q3. I've been going a Ling/Baneling composition with light Mutas but it seems everyone has learned to outmicro Banelings. I have creep spread as one of my top priority so spreading creep isn't a problem. Is it better to go heavy Muta/Ling with light Banelings against mass Marine/Tank/Medivac or should I stick to my original composition?
ZvP:
Q4. I changed my strategy from a Roach heavy play to a more mass Muta/Ling play in ZvP. Is mass Muta/ling viable against a 200/200 Stalker/Sentry/Collosi ball or should I still try to eventually tech Ultras. Since Muta/ling is so gas heavy, I find it hard to tech to Ultras. What is a better playstyle; mass Roach or mass Muta/Ling
Thanks again for the help.
1: hatch first builds are becoming much much more common on certain maps. Maps with huge nats like DQ, xel make it hard, as well as scrap/BS for other reasons. There's a recent thread in the strat forum about it.
2: go into options and turn 'Show Flyer Help' to "always". This will turn on those 3D lines that show you where the air units ground equivalent is. Then you just aim the fungal at their ground location.
3: I have no idea what you mean by light or heavy, those are such relative terms. 15-17, maybe even a few more, mutas seems like a good number, then just dump the rest into banes. Also, if people are learning to micro better, you need to learn how to micro better as well. Set up better flanks with your zerglings so he can't run away so easily.
4: I don't play mutaling that often, but yes, it will do fine vs that. The thing you need to watch out for with mutaling is HT. You want to be switching out of muta ling into roaches once the HT count gets too high.
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Hello, I played a mix of Terran and Protoss all the way up to Platinum before decideing finally on Zerg as my race choice..then I got owned by a placement match player and am in Gold..ive been practicing alot among my friends until i felt comfortable and after two weeks of no 1v1 league games i tried some tonight..i got owned 4 games in a row..this is unnerving. I have been watching alot of pros on gomtv.net and hdstarcraft and the way they all play is just keep expanding until you out resource your opponent..well here are my questions
1. When im playing ZvZ or any mirror matchup i can scout and know what they are going but i never know what to make. i played a ZvZ tonight..the whole game i was one expansion ahead of him yet he had more troops the whole time. i scouted early and knew he was going roach/hydra and not mutas..so after a while of contemplating i went roach hydra too and then made a few ultras..with 4 saturated bases i hit my supply cap and decided to attack he steamrolled my army and before i could re make he destroyed my base. so i guess i made too many drones. anyways my question is this..
when you expand and are droneing up ur opponent is making only troops therefore he has more troops than you. how do you stop your opponent from killing you at that point when you are expanding and he isnt but he has more troops and just comes in and kills your army?
2. another question..i was playing ZvP and i went 14 hatch 14 pool slings and then he 2 gate attacks me with zealots so i go roaches. 2 minutes later at around the 10-11 minute point in the game i have about 15 roaches and am harassing his expansion and zealot ball when i realize there are 5 void rays in my base..even if i had scouted how do i stop 5+ void rays at the 13 min mark? since the patch marines are an easy enough counter but i had no hydra den was too late to get spores and my 3 queens got obliterated by his rays.
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I'm having a lot of issues with ZvP. There is one strat that I can never beat. The toss that does a 2 base play and camps in it until they get a huge stalker/collosus ball and he always keeps enough cannons and stalkers around to stop any muta harass and he sets up his wall at the natural to stop any roach/ling push and always keeps 4 sentries around to protect the wall while it's being built. So I'm on 4 base and he's on 2 but he bring out 5-6 collosus and pumps massive amounts of stalkers and at least 6 sentries. Even if I get 3 corrupters for each collossi I lose all the corrupters before I do any real dmg vs the sea of stalkers. If I use any ground, it just gets melted by collossi. And if I try to attack with a balanced composition between ground and corruptors, they just put up forcefields and take out the corruptors. I haven't tried ultra/infestors yet, but by the time I get them up, I very much doubt that they would do much against a sea of stalkers. Oh and broodlords will just get killed by the blink stalkers. I normally open with a 14 hatch or 14 pool 16 hatch depending on starting positions and I adapt from that point on. I have no problems vs 4 gates or 2 gates. It's just the ones that decide to camp on 2 base and wait for a mass stalker/collosi army that I have no idea how to deal with.
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EPT
