EPTWhen to scout vs. random?
When to drone scout vs toss?
What to deduce as far as scouting taken gases early means? 1 gas terran mean hellion expand? etc
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 101
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Grantler
United States228 Posts
When to scout vs. random? When to drone scout vs toss? What to deduce as far as scouting taken gases early means? 1 gas terran mean hellion expand? etc | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
On October 03 2011 21:28 Snuggles wrote: Sup guys got a question for you all. ZvT and the Terran decides to 1rax 1 gas FE with a tech lab on his rax. He drops 2 more rax @ 4-5~ min in. What are some good responses to this? He does a 10 min push that crushed me due my poor scouting, but overall I think I could have done better if I knew different ways to react. So should I delay gas a bit and get a fast third and a later lair? Or should attempt a baneling bust after scouting his FE (IF i do scout it, having a reaper running around makes it difficult. What kind of key structures would I need to prevent him from randomly killing me with units (pre-emptive spine crawlers for safety's sake?) ? Also if you ovie gets lucky and scouts the terran on the first try, is it possible to make him hover over into a safe spot by the enemy's natural without being picked off by a marine? Shamelessly bumping up my question here. Any thoughts at all? I've been brain storming but I can't seem to figure out the timing for gases and what not if I decide to go for a quick third, and I haven't dealt with the build in a while. Believe it or not its quite difficult to find a competent practice partner who will actually practice with you and not bitch and complain if a practice game doesn't go well for him =_=. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:30 Snuggles wrote: Shamelessly bumping up my question here. Any thoughts at all? I've been brain storming but I can't seem to figure out the timing for gases and what not if I decide to go for a quick third, and I haven't dealt with the build in a while. Believe it or not its quite difficult to find a competent practice partner who will actually practice with you and not bitch and complain if a practice game doesn't go well for him =_=. 1 Rax FEs can be susceptible to baneling busts, but just going for an aggressive baneling play against it won't always guarantee you a win. Best bet is to just play a solid macro style. The 10 minute timing is a pretty common one. Drone your ass off until 8 minutes, and then just hammer out units. A 3-4 rax bio push, even with a few tanks, can be pretty easily squashed with pure ling, or pure ling bane. And if T is pushing you at 10 minutes, it's completely possible for you to have mutas on the map already. | ||
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CaptainPlatypus
United States852 Posts
On October 03 2011 21:28 Snuggles wrote: Sup guys got a question for you all. ZvT and the Terran decides to 1rax 1 gas FE with a tech lab on his rax. He drops 2 more rax @ 4-5~ min in. What are some good responses to this? He does a 10 min push that crushed me due my poor scouting, but overall I think I could have done better if I knew different ways to react. So should I delay gas a bit and get a fast third and a later lair? Or should attempt a baneling bust after scouting his FE (IF i do scout it, having a reaper running around makes it difficult. What kind of key structures would I need to prevent him from randomly killing me with units (pre-emptive spine crawlers for safety's sake?) ? Also if you ovie gets lucky and scouts the terran on the first try, is it possible to make him hover over into a safe spot by the enemy's natural without being picked off by a marine? 1rax FE (I assume by tech lab you mean a reaper expand) is a pretty greedy opening, and there are two different ways to respond to it. First, you can probably just go roach/ling/bling off of 2 gas and kill him if he doesn't know what he's doing pretty well. Second, you can just drone your ass off while keeping a ling near his entrance to watch for his army moving out and sacrificing an ovie at 5-6 minutes to see his tech choice so you know what to be ready for. As soon as you see him move out, start massing a bunch of lings with a few banelings and move all those lings out on the map, so you can cut off reinforcements and then come in behind him when he heads for your natural and flank him (you can afford to wait more or less indefinitely until he actually starts gunning for your drones or hatch with his marines, or your hatch hits half health or so from tanks, while you get extra rounds of production). So basically, you need to see the push coming and know roughly what its composition is (roaches against hellion/thor or something like that, ling/bling against marine/tank), stall as long as possible while cutting off reinforcements so his army stays the same size, and then crunch him between your force out on the map and everything else you've built. Then proceed with the game as normally. As far as the reaper running around goes, it shouldn't be able to stay in your base safely for very long, assuming you went for a double queen opening - queens can keep reapers off creep pretty effectively with good micro, especially if you have a few (no more than six) lings to cut off his cliff/escape route. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
Many of you suggested roach -> corrupter into the mid-game in ZvP. With only roach I'm having trouble defending against mass blink stalkers with this build. Maybe I need to scout a bit sooner and grab some infestors but I was wondering if there is a safer mid-game composition against toss - maybe mass ling/roach? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 05 2011 23:48 They_ wrote: The KR/TW server plat - diamond terrans tend to open with reactor hellion expand. Is there a way to come out ahead against this build? Is there something that could be considered nearly a build order win against this build? There is really no build order win vs it as its just a standard opener. I mean if you really want to try to abuse it your best bet would be proxy hatch roach rush lol (which I don't recommend idk how it is at the lower levels but at high masters they just hold that so easy even if they don't scout it >>) but otherwise no there is no build order win vs that. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 06 2011 03:38 blade55555 wrote: There is really no build order win vs it as its just a standard opener. I mean if you really want to try to abuse it your best bet would be proxy hatch roach rush lol (which I don't recommend idk how it is at the lower levels but at high masters they just hold that so easy even if they don't scout it >>) but otherwise no there is no build order win vs that. There are no direct BO wins vs it, but there are plenty ways to come out ahead, especially in the lower leagues. Any hatch first into a relatively quick 5-7 roaches will be quite strong vs it. And any 1 base roach build will be okay. (though much, much easier to scout) | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On October 06 2011 00:09 Grantler wrote: Here with a few scouting questions. When to scout vs. random? When to drone scout vs toss? What to deduce as far as scouting taken gases early means? 1 gas terran mean hellion expand? etc I'm not sure what level you play at I can say that in diamond my decision on scout timing is more dependent on map/position than anything else. As far as playing against random players specifically, I find that they tend to flat out cheese less than I'd expect. On the other hand, (maybe my sample size is small) I see a trend where they like to do 1 base or early 2 base all-ins. I generally scout at 14-16 if your OLs don't find enough meaningful information and then additional scout based on what you find. Honestly against toss (again depending on what your OL sees) you can probably scout a bit later. Around my level of play, where FFE is so common, early game protoss aggression isn't very common. As for deducing terran play based on gas taken, honestly, they could be doing anything with the gas. What's more important to know is that they're not hardcore two raxing you if they take a gas early (if you see it with your OL/scouting drone). | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 06 2011 04:45 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Super quick question. Do you need anything special to stop a protoss 1 base immortal/zealot attack? I only had slow lings and possibly too many drones, so I sacced a lot of those drones and lost later. Are mass speedlings ok or should I have some roaches? Can't say that I've run into this recently. (maybe ever?) But off the top of my head: Banelings will turn it into pure ling vs pure immortal. But I would think that you'd be able to defend with only lings and spines. Roaches would probably work too, quite frankly. | ||
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
On October 06 2011 03:34 c0ldfusion wrote: Diamond zerg here. Many of you suggested roach -> corrupter into the mid-game in ZvP. With only roach I'm having trouble defending against mass blink stalkers with this build. Maybe I need to scout a bit sooner and grab some infestors but I was wondering if there is a safer mid-game composition against toss - maybe mass ling/roach? Roach/ling is safe pretty much until they get colossi. If the ~5:15 ovy sac doesn't give you any information, I would morph an overseer immediately after my lair finishes and run it through their base look for some indication as to what they're doing. As long as they're not going colossi, I'd even suggest hydras. I've had some success with roach/hydra/ling or roach/hydra. But yes, roach/ling is a good composition. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On October 06 2011 05:01 MrBitter wrote: Can't say that I've run into this recently. (maybe ever?) But off the top of my head: Banelings will turn it into pure ling vs pure immortal. But I would think that you'd be able to defend with only lings and spines. Roaches would probably work too, quite frankly. Yeah it took me by surprise too  I saw the super early robo and didn't put 2+2 together. If any decent sized army will stop it I'm not too worried then, was just a "built too many drones" fail on my part. | ||
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
On October 06 2011 05:13 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Yeah it took me by surprise too I saw the super early robo and didn't put 2+2 together. If any decent sized army will stop it I'm not too worried then, was just a "built too many drones" fail on my part.Probably that was it, this push sounds weird and not solid. Best options imo are mass ling + some banes to rape the Z's (im assuming he doesnt have charge, that means they're grouped up). Make sure your lings get the surround on the immos, don't engage until he moves the zealots forward from the immos. You should realistically have 2 saturated bases running by the time this hits(3+ immos), meaning stupid amounts of lings. If you think the push is going to come really late, remember that 2base is WAY more than enough money to constantly produce lings, you'll need a macro hatch or safe 3rd. | ||
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freewareplayer
Germany403 Posts
On October 06 2011 00:01 freewareplayer wrote: High diamond Zerg here and im completly lost when playing vs well executed mech. What unit composition/tactic do i need when i face Thor/Hellion/Tank as main army, some vikings, some banshees and about 2 ravens for PDD? The PDDs makes Corruptors and Mutas useless, so my broodlords just die to the vikings and even a big amount of Mutas will fall to the Thors + vikings without doing anything thanks to the pdd, Roaches alone vs tank thor + banshee doesnt go well after that... I dont even have a clue on how to kill that, apart from never letting it happen, but if the Terran turtles hard enough its not like you can really prevent it. Bump | ||
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ZergCacique
United States28 Posts
i need new builts | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
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Ahrun
United States100 Posts
On October 06 2011 06:49 ZergCacique wrote: I'm a High Level Gold Zerg, i need some built other then the 15 hatch 14 pool vs Toss/Terran i need new builts As a zerg it isn't that easy to deviate away from this. 14/14 pool then gas is okay as well, it is safer but less beneficial economy wise. However after going past the early expand there are numerous types of attacks that you can use to your advantage. You could go for drg's aggressive roach style, if the terran goes for early hellion play it is really easy to do a lot of damage. You are already opening roach play so their hellions are highly inneffecitve, and they can't have tanks with siege when you push. At best you will just kill them if they played bad. At worst you'll deny expo for a little which is nice. Standard ling bling muta against terran is always good against marine tank styles. DRG is a great innovator compared to most zerg's against terran with his early roach play, some of his games will be good to help you . Hope that you can gain something out of this ^_^ | ||
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coL.hendralisk
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
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Baseic
Netherlands310 Posts
It's mech so you should expand alot and get up a huge economy. Then you should tech to ultra, it is possible to kill the ground army with a huge ultra/bling ball. (Attack move ultras, move blings, only attack moving when you have a huge surround). Once the ground army has been cleaned up you pretty much won. That's my tactic, I can provide a replay, but only vs. a very bad terran. (High diamond too) | ||
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