I am 1000+ Diamond League as Zerg.

I'm looking for timing advice in regard to getting second gas at my main. Should I get second gas before starting lair? And if not when should I get it.

I want to hear some opinions about the importance of second gas timing if I were going for Mutas as opposed to Infester and/or Hydra. It would also like to hear opinions on when to get expo gases.

I never use mutas so my timing with second gas is not very good. Need some advice.

Saracen

United States5139 Posts

September 14 2010 22:16 GMT

This is actually really important. I play my gas timings by ear... so kind of whenever I feel like it, which is a terrible habit. It's probably best to just make up your own timings and stick to them (e.g. 2nd gas when lair starts, 3rd and 4th when lair finishes if you want to go mutas) and see where that takes you. Ofc adjust if it's not working out. I personally take my gasses a bit later so I can pump more drones while taking my 3rd faster, but it depends on what strat you're using.

Icx

Belgium853 Posts

September 14 2010 22:17 GMT

most people get their 2nd gas just as they start their lair.

If your going for some heavy muta-play you can take your nat gas when your lair is morphing (if you managed to drone up a bit).

When I go hydra (against toss for example) I usually delay my nat gas untill there are already some hydra's on the way.

plantran

United States7 Posts

September 14 2010 22:17 GMT

I'm 900+ Diamond Zerg

This is probably not the answer you want to hear and you are also probably doing this as well but I get my 2nd/3rd extractor when its safe and start pooling gas. If I do want mutas, i get the gas while Lair is in transition. This puts me around enough gas to make 7 mutas when spire is done assuming I do not spend too much gas on roaches if any.

I don't know if gas timing's is the best thing for zerg because we are so reactionary. 5RR is the only real exception to this

AnG3r

Germany6 Posts

September 14 2010 22:21 GMT

As far as I know:
- you want to take that 2nd gas at your main as soon as you start to upgrade to lair.

- If u go for mutas, you want to stockpile some gas to get insta-spire upon lair completion and to produce your 5-6 Mutas as soon as your Spire finishes. So while getting your Lair you should start mining gas from your expo asap.

- As you take your 3rd base, go for both gases instant, and saturate those asap. You want that third base primarly for gas to maintain mass mutas.

This is only what I know regarding your question. If I'm mistakin, feel free to correct me (but pls keep the flaming low).

tackklee

United States270 Posts

September 14 2010 22:22 GMT

this is definitely one of the most troublesome parts about playing zerg. we are such a reactionary race and our openers are heavily dependent on what our opponents do. hopefully when strategies start to evolve and balance patches comes, there will be better build orders that will really define when to get the 2nd gas.. but as it right now, at least for me, it's better played by ear. or maybe i just suck.

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

September 14 2010 22:23 GMT

The most important thing i have to add to what saracen has already said, is that your gas timing should basically be planned on what you want to do for the future. Unlike p or t, where you can make a gas intake, you can simply choose to not utilize it, with no punishment other than minimal mining time. With zerg, since you are using a drone, that really cuts into your potential mineral intake.

So like ^ said, it should be based on what strategy you want to do. For mutas, you have to get a really fast 2nd gas. When i 1 base muta into expo, i get my 2nd gas at around 50% queen.

nat expos are really tricky, because getting that gas really cuts into your 3rd base timing potential. Since lings seem to melt so fast, your main armies consist of mainly gas. As a general rule of thumb I would suggest(1200 random player, Zerg being my weakest race) to plan your gas timings based on if you are going to need units soon. Planning on a quick third? Stick to lower,later gas intake. Fear of an aggressive midgame push? Get a faster 2nd, 3rd gas for more hydras/roach/infestor.

And I also would like to add, and should be confirmed by better zergs, that there is no reason to get 4 gas 2 base unless you are going to be all-ining with muta+other gas units.

denzelz

United States604 Posts

September 14 2010 22:26 GMT

As a 900 Zerg, I get my gas after I start my Lair, which can seem quite late if I go speedlings first with my first 100, but it usually works out.

I usually do first 100 to speedlings, next 100 to Lair, get second extractor, put down first evo chamber.

denzelz

United States604 Posts

September 14 2010 22:30 GMT

On September 15 2010 07:23 zomgtossrush wrote:

And I also would like to add, and should be confirmed by better zergs, that there is no reason to get 4 gas 2 base unless you are going to be all-ining with muta+other gas units.

I disagree with this. 4 gas is absolutely necessary for zerg. I find plenty of timing gaps in the early to mid game to drone pump, so I usually end up with an excess of minerals. When the mid-game starts and I have to get carapace and attack upgrades, along with a combo of infestors/hydras/roaches before teching to Hive, I find myself needing a lot of gas, almost always running out.

The lack of gas is what motivates the 3rd base for me since you need 6 gas to comfortably support a broodlord or ultra build.

deadbutmoving

United States66 Posts

September 14 2010 22:30 GMT

#10

Thanks for responses.

I usually start building the second gas at the same time I start morphing into lair. But that is just a bad habit of mine. I don't actually know if it will benefit me or not =(

I find that once my lair tech gets into full gear, I never have enough gas to go around even when mining from 2 bases.

-vVvTitan-

United States473 Posts

September 14 2010 22:33 GMT

#11

1300 zerg - Adding gas is completely controlled by your build. In Zvt, I throw down my 2nd gas when I tech to lair, and when it finishes, my 3rd (my baneling nest goes down 1/5th into lair tech so it aligns with completion of lair). This allows me to grab bane speed and an infestation pit when lair finishes (its a perfect 250 gas from the lair timing if I am not mistaken). If I am going to go muta, I drop 2nd/3rd when I go lair and 4th when it completes as to not destroy my economy. Everything is situational though because it can all be changed from scouting. If you have to cut drones, then only go 3 gas. If you dont have to, get that 2/3/4 at standard timing.

GL

OPSavioR

Sweden1465 Posts

September 14 2010 22:35 GMT

#12

Check get his 2nd gas when his lair is 65%-75% done

deadbutmoving

United States66 Posts

September 14 2010 22:42 GMT

#13

On September 15 2010 07:35 OPSavioR wrote:
Check get his 2nd gas when his lair is 65%-75% done

WOW!

I would die to a 10min push if I got gas that late.

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

September 14 2010 22:45 GMT

#14

On September 15 2010 07:30 denzelz wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ahh good points. I wouldn't say necessary, but for your play style then yeah it requires 4 gas, with the upgrades and infestor player. Of course like i was saying, if your more of a macro head, maybe less gas, but those are very good reasons to have 4 gas.

Holyknight_127

United States82 Posts

September 14 2010 22:46 GMT

#15

I find a good time to add gas is after using all of your larva and still having excess minerals to make extractors. It might be my play style, but IMHO it's not worth it to cut drones to stockpile gas. In case your minerals rise, you would have already sent drones to mine gas, and so it should balance out. (If not, you can do what denzelz said and take a 3rd)

You can actually see some builds reminiscent of this in BW. Making 3 hatches before gas was fairly common.

BTW, it's only a guideline. ofc it will depend on the build. No gas timing can be exact when zerg has to constantly scout and react. Too bad no build order can be set in stone yet.

GosuSheep

United States119 Posts

September 14 2010 22:49 GMT

#16

Do what day9 suggests:

1.) JUST TRY SOMETHING. Put up the gas once your lair goes up.
2.) TWEEK IT. Did you have too much gas? Not enough gas when you needed it? Depending on what you want to get, how should you should it?

It is important to note that you will not want the same amount of gas for mutaling as you would for roach/ling. Depending on what you need to go, set up timings like "if I'm going mutas, I will get 3 gas when my lair starts" or something similar.