• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:53
CET 09:53
KST 17:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
MBCGame Torrents Foreign Brood War BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1589 users

[H] How can I deal with low APM? - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Bumblebees
Profile Joined August 2010
United States328 Posts
October 21 2010 19:09 GMT
#121
On October 22 2010 00:33 Benshin88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2010 00:01 Bumblebees wrote:
I was going to post an update thread today, but I've decided to spend most of the day writing a guide to playing with constricted APM, or using your current APM more effectively.

I'll update the main post in this thread with a link once I'm finished.


have you tried wearing compression gloves/stockings? It should increase your BP. I'm going to assume you are already medicated. All of these might be able to delay the onset of your symptoms. It could allow you to increase your APM cap. I'm really impressed that you were able to get to 1300 diamond with 25-30 apm. Great Job! keep it up.


I've tried compression stockings, but they are prohibitively expensive. I am a big guy (6'6"/198cm) and I have quite large feet and legs. To get the correct compression I have to have the stockings custom made.

I've found that simply crossing my legs in various weird ways when I sit, as has been my habit most of my life, is just as effective as compression stockings.

Thank you for the suggestion
Parodoxx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States549 Posts
October 21 2010 19:17 GMT
#122
If its not lack of practice that limits your apm then micro intensive builds are going to be very hard for you.

Try to become perfect at the macro game b/c more often then not having more stuff wins even if its just attack move
Obsolescence
Profile Joined August 2010
United States270 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-21 20:09:49
October 21 2010 20:03 GMT
#123
On September 13 2010 02:38 tackklee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 02:30 Bumblebees wrote:
On September 13 2010 02:25 tackklee wrote:
As many others would say, APM is not everything. This holds especially true in SC2. Macro, economy, unit composition and strategic thinking will definitely trump micro or higher apm any day.


I'd love to believe this, and would readily do so if there was a 1500+ diamond player who averaged 30-40apm. Hell, even 800+ would seriously convince me it's possible.

That doesn't mean I don't think I couldn't be the first (triple negative, hooray!). It'd be awesome if there was someone to learn from though


Well, a 1500+ diamond player will definitely not be at 30-40 apm. But there are quite a few out there that are 800+ diamond with that low apm. I know this first hand because when I watch my replays and check out the opponents apm I see it all the time.


This is absolutely incorrect. Please, don't tell people what is or isn't possible if you don't know. I'm a 1400 (w/ 120 bonus pool) Random Diamond player and my APM average for each race is:
Z = ~80
T = ~40-45
P = ~40-45

@Bumblebees: Don't be discouraged by people telling you it isn't possible! They either don't know or haven't tried. I'm sure if I made an effort I could drop my Terran average APM to 30-35 easily and still win in ~1300 Diamond. There was a Terran player recently that was around 1800-2000 Diamond talking about how he wanted to be the highest ranked lowest APM player ever (I forget what his APM was exactly but it was definitely no more than 60).

I'd recommend not playing Zerg if being in Diamond is more important to you than playing Zerg. Zerg is by far the most APM intensive. I use to play Zerg exclusively, but since I've switched to Random I've realized that Terran and Toss take 1/2 the APM that Zerg does at the same skill level. I'd try out the other races. 4-Gate and 3-Rax are fairly simple builds that don't require very much APM to be effective into mid-diamond at least. I can attest that up until at least 1300 Diamond, 3-Rax 1-A win is exactly as simple as it sounds. I'm not kidding. Not even a little. I was actually somewhat disgusted once I realized how easy it really was to beat people with these strategies compared to my frantic 80 APM Zerg omg-what-is-he-throwing-at-me-now!

Oops! I'm guilty of not reading the whole thread or seeing your update:

On October 21 2010 04:41 Bumblebees wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2010 03:04 Azzur wrote:
I'm currently a Terran, 1500 Diamond in SEA server (1300 NA so far). When I was a couple hundred points lower, my APM averaged 40-50 a game. However, with practice, I've been able to push my APM further up 10-15 points, which I feel has actually made me a better player. However, bear in mind that this is my avg APM, mine can spike to 100+ during key points of the game.

But to the OP: yes, it's possible to hit the Diamond league with lowish APM. How I cope is to play timing based attacks and to predict what my opponent is doing.


I'm the OP and I'm 1300 diamond now, and my APM has actually gone down. I'm averaging 25 or so now.


Congratz! I can't believe you've been able to reach 1300 Diamond with 25 APM. You've inspired me to find ways to use my APM more effectively as Zerg. Thanks!
It doesn't think. It doesn't feel. It doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. -Phyrexian Hulk
MforWW
Profile Joined July 2010
United States157 Posts
October 21 2010 20:30 GMT
#124
APM is overrated, and I fully support everybody that's been getting high rankings with low APM.

I used to be the same way, but for some reason my average APM (I play zerg, btw) has risen to 100 just due to playing the game a bunch. APM is really somewhat of a by-product of getting better at the game.

I still don't support spam clicking or think that you need high APM to be good, but I will say that in a big, 4 base macro game you'll definitely hit a wall if you can't handle the APM requirements (speaking 100% from experience, as I can recall past games where I thought to myself mid-match "holy crap, I just can't keep up with everything and do everything I want to do right now")

Bumblebees
Profile Joined August 2010
United States328 Posts
October 23 2010 23:31 GMT
#125
I have written and posted the first revision of my playing with low APM guide.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163299
pakman
Profile Joined October 2010
United States57 Posts
October 28 2010 05:26 GMT
#126
Hey bumblebee. nice guide btw. Congrats on reaching 1300 diamond. I assure you, you can even go higher. I am a 1500 toss player with a relatively low apm around 50 for t and p and 60 for z. Even though this is considered extremely low at my level, I still find that i am executing way too many meaningless clicks and spams than what is necessary to accomplish what I want to do. All those extra clicks are just a byproduct of me subconciously wanting to raise my apm, but when the game gets deep, the spam (if you can evenc call it that) dissappears and all that really matters is effective apm, which I estimate to be 25. Even with 25 apm, I manage to take on 1600 level players who probably have around 130 apm. What this means is that even if my micro is not up to par, you can still be ahead in the game due to the games focus being economy and information management. It does not take insane apm to come up with abetter unit composition orstrategic positioning if you can effectively scout and prepare for an incoming attack. All it takes is a couple of box draggings and a few right clicks, not 5 actions per second. Anyways, mad respect for overcoming barriers through perseverance and dedication
serverdown
Profile Joined September 2010
19 Posts
October 28 2010 14:54 GMT
#127
Im a 1400 diamond zerg player who has an average APM of 65. I think its awesome how I beat higher ranking players with better army composition, macro, positioning and overall gamesense alone. But now I see that when I play increasingly better opponents I suffer because of my low APM. When Im in late game I notice that my game is lacking in all sorts of ways. I start paying less attention to creep spread and I could have used those extra minerals for another expansion late game, I could have mirco'd that engagement better if I had just been fast enough etc.. These are problems than can be solved and worked upon but you need to have a decent APM to do it.
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 18h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech130
SortOf 79
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1055
Killer 209
Leta 174
JulyZerg 151
Sharp 69
Shinee 63
Dewaltoss 61
zelot 59
Shine 52
ToSsGirL 33
[ Show more ]
NotJumperer 31
Noble 13
Hm[arnc] 10
Terrorterran 0
Dota 2
singsing1975
NeuroSwarm59
canceldota23
febbydoto11
League of Legends
JimRising 529
C9.Mang0265
Reynor58
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss387
Super Smash Bros
Westballz2
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor114
Other Games
summit1g8906
Mew2King2258
crisheroes377
ceh9329
XaKoH 255
Happy238
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 63
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling142
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
18h 8m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 1h
WardiTV 2025
1d 3h
SC Evo League
1d 3h
IPSL
1d 8h
Dewalt vs ZZZero
BSL 21
1d 11h
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
1d 13h
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
2 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
PiGosaur Monday
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV 2025
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.