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I think this is a fairly straightforward question: what is the best way to defend a well-executed 4 gate as Zerg given the following conditions:
1.) Teching to hydras is not an option due to time.
2.) You FE'd (but have not built any drones).
3.) Your opponent opened with 2 gate delayed pressure (5 zealots at once) and you have some lings left over, but killed all the opponent's zealots he sent at you.
4.) Spine crawlers are an option.
5.) You are not restricted to either roaches or lings, but must primarily use one or the other against a mixed gateway force.
Yes, this is a baaaaaad position for the zerg player, as it usually means GG unless they pull out a very well done play. I have seen both done, both with and without spine crawlers, and I am curious to hear what TL thinks about it.
So Zerg, tell us those stories you are secretly proud of, those times where you came back from the brink of defeat against the eerie Protoss armadas.
And Protoss, tell us of those times in which the Zerg showed their true tenacity of having their back up against the wall.
Poll: What is best for a Zerg player to primarily defend with?Pure Speedlings (225) 62% Speedling with Roach Support (85) 23% Roaches with Speedling Support (35) 10% Pure Roaches (20) 5% 365 total votes Your vote: What is best for a Zerg player to primarily defend with? (Vote): Pure Speedlings
(Vote): Pure Roaches
(Vote): Speedling with Roach Support
(Vote): Roaches with Speedling Support
Disclaimer1: The disclaimer below contains raging sarcasm, but the first sentence is true.
Disclaimer2: I am not asking for help, so I am not posting replays. I have seen it done in all these ways above, but I am pretty sure even being such hot shit (800 diamond!) my opinion is not the be all end all of this discussion.
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Ling/Hydra + 2-4 Crawler
If you dont give any arguments for 1. Hydras are no option due to timing i want to see a replay of that. Im pretty sure there are 4gate builds that are timed before hydras pop, but not everyone. Especially not +1Attack 4Gate Push because i defended against that one today with Ling/Hydra.
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Throw down spine crawlers, mass speedlings while teching to hydra.. gotta flank, and micro it well. Its best not to engage if you can help it unless you are 100% sure you'll have lings left.
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If you get plenty of roaches, sure they aren't great vs stalkers but at least they do OK, and they do fairly well against zealots. Zerglings, on the other hand, are not enough to stop a pure zealot force. I therefore always lean towards having more roaches than zerglings, because it takes really few zerglings to take down even a fairly decent sized ball of stalkers if you have spine support and you kill off all their zealots with roaches.
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zealot pressure > lings
roaches > zealot pressure
stalkers > roaches
roaches and lings + spinecrawlers (this varies a lot... check if P took exp or not after roach pressure) > 4 warpgate
Btw I my experience zergs tend to FE to often.. it just makes them easier target for me
I'm having hardest time when zergs makes 2nd hatch in main and once he's saturated main goes for 3rd hatch - exp
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In my experience zerg onebase is totally unefficient if the protoss decides to expand if he sees it after pushing.
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On September 05 2010 10:55 Bleb wrote:
zealot pressure > lings
roaches > zealot pressure
stalkers > roaches
roaches and lings + spinecrawlers (this varies a lot... check if P took exp or not after roach pressure) > 4 warpgate
Btw I my experience zergs tend to FE to often.. it just makes them easier target for me
I'm having hardest time when zergs makes 2nd hatch in main and once he's saturated main goes for 3rd hatch - exp
What league/ranking are you right now? I might have to try this 1 base 2 hatch strat if you're playing against high ranking zerg players
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I used to always rely on just spinecrawlers and lings, but more recently I've been losing to protoss who do a 4 gate with +1. I'm thinking you need roaches if they do this, otherwise lings/spinecrawlers should be sufficient.
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Russian Federation6 Posts
On September 08 2010 12:39 Aoratha wrote:
I used to always rely on just spinecrawlers and lings, but more recently I've been losing to protoss who do a 4 gate with +1. I'm thinking you need roaches if they do this, otherwise lings/spinecrawlers should be sufficient.
Or you just can make +1 to carapace instead of teching to roaches if you see 4gate and forge.
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On September 08 2010 13:41 Kyun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 12:39 Aoratha wrote:
I used to always rely on just spinecrawlers and lings, but more recently I've been losing to protoss who do a 4 gate with +1. I'm thinking you need roaches if they do this, otherwise lings/spinecrawlers should be sufficient. Or you just can make +1 to carapace instead of teching to roaches if you see 4gate and forge.
Are you sure about this? Whenever I tried this they push before its finished, since they can research it a lot faster with chronoboost. Also wouldn't you have to scout the forge before you lay down the evolution chamber? I have no doubt that you're right about it working if +1 carapace can be researched but I'm just curious to see how its executed in time for the push.
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On September 08 2010 15:28 Aoratha wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 13:41 Kyun wrote:On September 08 2010 12:39 Aoratha wrote:
I used to always rely on just spinecrawlers and lings, but more recently I've been losing to protoss who do a 4 gate with +1. I'm thinking you need roaches if they do this, otherwise lings/spinecrawlers should be sufficient. Or you just can make +1 to carapace instead of teching to roaches if you see 4gate and forge. Are you sure about this? Whenever I tried this they push before its finished, since they can research it a lot faster with chronoboost. Also wouldn't you have to scout the forge before you lay down the evolution chamber? I have no doubt that you're right about it working if +1 carapace can be researched but I'm just curious to see how its executed in time for the push.
What time does the push come? the fast I get ling speed and +1 carapace is 7:45 in game, and I had like 28 zerglings.
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just build a ton of spine crawlers...
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mass speedlings ftw 
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I don't see what you zergs think gives you the right to fast expand  .
4gate all day.
Mass speedlings < decent micro.
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How are you going to find his forge and react to it in time?!
Even if you spot his forge on the SECOND he throws it down (seriously that will never happen) his chrono will finish it much faster than you, and then your lings are worthless so if you tried to defend with pure lings you lost.
Are you forced to get +1 carapace in every game your opponent goes 1 gate core?...
Problem with hydras is they will hardly even pop before his guys come. And watch the replay; Z will be behind in workers AND army cost if you try to tech to hydras.
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Wheres the pure spine crawler option? But seriously, do toss really do this strat? I dont really know because I always counter attack on 1 base with fast roaches when I see 2 gate, so I'm not really in this position very often. However, vs a standard 4 gate, I usually go pure speedling with spine support at my expo...
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To many of those saying mass spine crawlers, I see quite a few times where the toss player will snipe crawlers unless you have 6 bunched together...which is one helluva mineral sink o.O And does not good for counter pressure (unless you are TLO).
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Why would any strat not contain roaches? Everytime I try to defend with Spines/Speedlings, I lose. Having roaches at least gives me a chance. They tank the front, generally take out the zlots and the speedlings move in on the stalkers.
Slings are way to weak by themselves to counter 4-gate pressure. I would love to see a replay showing spines/slings being better than spines/roaches/slings.
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just make a bunch of spines and lings
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spine crawlers ... i hate em.
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EPT
