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Hi TLers,
I'm a top platinum zerg trying to finally get to diamond. But i have troubles againt Zerg players...
I can beat terrans pretty often now (God that magic box is awesome), and i am doing well vs Protoss players too. But now the last problem i have is vs Zerg. Due to the low number of Zerg players (at least at my level), i encountered a little of them, and i don't know what to do against it. (obvious lack of practice)
It usually go this way :
They go for a Slings/Blings early push. I tried to counter this in 2 ways :
- either by doing the same, but they are somehow faster than me, come into my base first, bust my Lings army and it's gg for me
-either i go roach and block my ramp with holding position while fast teching to mutas. But if i do this, they won't try to push and instead they will go mutas too. So we are pretty equals at this time (even number of mutas, 1 base for each side) but when i try to push, they pop 1-2 corruptors to counter my mutas and their speedlings army decimate my low numbered - unupgraded roaches. And i finally lose at this point.
So, what am i doing wrong ? Is there any good strategies different than these that could work in top platinum ? I really dislike the one base play and the "rush" strategy that caracterize ZvZ games (i'm more into macro games), but i think i don't have any choices..
Thanks for your help.
PS : No replays yet, haven't faced any Zerg today, will provide it tomorrow if i find one.
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my last game against a zerg i went roach hydra and it seems to be effective against his mutalings
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Yeah but instead of pumping mutas, they will transition into more banelings to kill your hydras.
Plus, Hydra roach off of 1 base is very very gas-starving, so you won't have a lot of them, meanwhile he's gonna pump a ton of Slings/Blings/Mutas that will engage you after the hydras got roflstomped by his banelings
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Make sure your mechanics are perfect before looking for direct "hard counters."
There are two OBVIOUS solutions. Get blings, or get roach to block the ramp.
If you really want to turtle and expand you should opt to get absolutely no zerglings and only go bling.
Zerglings allow you to be aggressive. Defensive banelings are a real good solution if you're looking to tech. One bling on your ramp at all times allows you to stop ling run-by's it takes 2 banelings to kill one and it'll take them a lot of banelings to kill your banelings, and you should just always have more bling then your opponent because you're not using zerglings. Unfortunately zerg doesn't really have diverse tech paths, so you HAVE to do lings -> roach/bling.
Roach are very slow and the fact that you don't have bling means that zerglings can easily do a run by so roach actually pretty much states to your opponent. "I'm not pushing out soon so go ahead and grab an expo."
And staying one base with roach on the ramp is good for teching/surviving however they can just grab an expo and just beat you in the later stages of the game.
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Roach/Hydra is awesome, but don't get too many hydras if the enemy isn't going air. Roaches are better than hydras and counters banelings and zerglings. Only go a lot of hydras if you do have a lot of units. But hydras are still needed to counter mutalisks, just don't overreact because you will then be killed by 1000slings/blings.
I saw one really cool thing on a stream: hydra/infestor vs. mutas. You fungal growth the mutas when they clump up and then you shoot at them with your hydras (hydras have 5+1 range while mutas have 3), so you only need like 7 hydras and two infestors to counter like 20 mutas. Try it out, I haven't dared 
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This video is exactly what you're talking about.
Muta+Corruptor vs Muta+Corruptor
http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/18/z38krVtUQk8
Basically PsY (the commentator) goes roaches and blocks his ramp vs sling/bling, after which both players go spire due to the crazy short air distance. They both commit to corruptors, but once his opponent OVERcommits, he switches to hydra/roach and rolls him.
Muta+Ling+Bane vs Hydra+Roach
http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/0/V6VUBtO5ooQ
Once your opponent commits to hydras, you've got map control, and as long as you play smart with your mutas (picking off exposed units or structures, small clumps of hydras, etc) you can easily take another expo and start outmacro'ing your opponent. Banelings deal with hydras amazingly well, as long as you're able to flank with them or do a burrow bomb. Just get them past his roaches and you're golden (and if he doesn't have any roaches, you pretty much autowin unless he's outmacro'd you somehow).
Also, infestors are a fantastic counter to mutas, since once they're rooted in place the hydras slaughter them. You have to stay vigilant with your scouting (mutas make fantastic scouts, as long as you don't sacrifice them, they're too damned expensive), and if you see an infestation pit, you probably want to get one yourself to slow down his inevitable push with fungals / terrans (try moving to just outside the detection range of his spore colonies and spamming terrans into his mineral line. LOL as his drones/queen gets slaughtered and he runs back to defend, then eats a face full of fungal growth).
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Hydra vs Muta is generally safer than muta vs muta, but that's my personal opinion. If the game ever does proceed for a long time, do remember to grab infesters.
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they get more baneling you get more roach
they get more mutalisk you get more hydra
1 base muta bling is definitely more gas starving then hydra roach.
and you are upgrading both units at the evo chamber
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For me the key to these matches hasn't really been amassing a superior force since most of the time its even up even if you go different techs.
Muta/sling/bling is my pref because of map control. I generally go spine have with a few lings to hold off whatever the initial push is pre spires/hydras. If my opponent goes with the same as me I just try to out micro him and be relentless. Kill ovies, drones, and make sure you run fast in and out while macroing your production. You'll either supply block him, force him into static d, or get an expo before him and then its gg.
If they go hydras to counter your mutas, get an evo chamber and pump piles of lings. If they have a decent mix of roaches with the hydras, get extra spines and mutas at home and get an expo, make sure you have lings near his base to see him push out and backstab with mutas. If you can kill 3-4 overlords and defend his push by running back, he won't be able to insta rebuild since hydra/roach is supply heavy.
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i like just going roach hydra, ignoring baneling wars, and waiting till infestors to attack to fungal their baneligns from just crushing ure hydras and if they went mutas, they'd be wrecked.
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Yeah what I've found is if you're playing against a really good player, he won't let you get to roach hydra. If you do get to roach hydra then more power to you, but that is a rarity that I almost never see. If you want help stopping that initial speedling baneling push what I suggest you do is to get speed as fast as possible and do a preemptive strike. Go to his base and right when he moves out do a backstab of sorts. What I've also found to be effective is to run one ling in at a time to take out the banelings.
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I always hate ZvZ because 90% of everyone goes early Speedling/Baneling into Muta. They can get them out way before you can get Roaches, and if you get Spine Crawlers, you're spelling your doom because you really can't put them far enough out past your Hatchery to stop the Banelings without sacrificing vital Larva.
If you survive the early Baneling phase, it's usually a "Who has more Mutas" battle. But I've definitely been finding some use in building two extra Queens just to Transfuse any Mutas that I have after trying to pick off some of his. It's pretty much adding in a few Mutas every battle. :D
I try to do Roach/Muta or Roach Hydra every time I do ZvZ, so I end up losing that match-up a lot.
Adding Infestors in could definitely help against any Muta harass, and Speedling/Baneling pushes. Fungal Growth tears Zerg units a new hole.
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if you go roach hydra then make like 6 infestors, fungal growth owns 50% of the zerg arsenal. lings/banelings/mutas all die from fungal growth. seriously you can just go mass infestor vs z and it would work it's insane
but they are really immobile, and mutaling baneling is really mobile.
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14 pool 13 gas is very effective against zerg. You can get speed fast, and a good enough economy to basically pump out slings/blings endlessly. It's sort of cheesy, imo, as there's not a great incentive to ever stop sending in your units and try to transition into something else -- and If you fail to make it to his mineral line, you're almost certain to lose. But maybe it's something to think about trying, as it does win games, and it's difficult to defend against.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling_Rush_(vs._Terran)
(I know it says vs terran, but it works fine vs any race..)
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If you go roaches against slings and blings you should consider getting some blings and then push him before he can get his mutas out. Roach bling destroy sling bling. It should be an easy win unless he scouts it and switches to roaches too or if he gets his mutas out before you attack.
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EPT
