EPTCrossing over Platinum to Diamond... - Page 2
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Cynoks
United States87 Posts
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whomybuddy
United States620 Posts
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guyGOTgirth
United States76 Posts
On August 25 2010 00:09 Cynoks wrote: Diamond doesn't mean anything honestly. I made diamond with less than 30 games played(Went like 20-10) and SC2 is the first RTS game I've entered the competitive scene with. Yeah, I think the points you have in diamond do correspond better to skill. I was a 300 in diamond as Zerg and I didn't even know you could spread creep! TBH I also didn't even know all the counters, I just overwhelmed most opponents, or when I lost I said TERRAN IS OP. Now I'm a ~600+ diamond and my game is just sooo much better. I think there is a clear division between the 300 (new diamonds) and the +500s | ||
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Peekaboo
Canada219 Posts
I'd say most did not expand and macro aggressively enough. Having played against Green Tea ai at the end of beta, it was pretty shocking. They'd be on one base when they could have been on three. A lot didn't have any clue how to counter me, they simply went with whatever gameplan they had from the start. A lot threw away units in bad attacks, or didn't set up proper defenses. They almost all had equal or more apm than me. A lot of stupid actions is not good. Focus on quality of action, done quickly. So my advise is play to your strengths while working on your weaknesses. If you are good with micro be aggressive but learn to be a macro beast while you do it. If you are good at macro, learn to be more aggressive and micro better. And think about the game after you win or lose. What would have worked. Don't just ragequit and start a new game. And get practice partners to simulate the builds that give you trouble so you can see if any theorycraft actually works. And play against the computer to perfect build orders. | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
To generalize.. learning how to transition out of early game into a strong position will set you far above a plat player. Along the same lines, learning how to properly capitalize on a midgame advantage will make you a stronger player and help you move up in diamond. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On August 24 2010 16:37 fabioisonfire wrote: Hey, everyone. Platinum level Protoss player here. For a while now, I've been hovering around the Diamond level, and I'm about to cross that line. I've got around 400 games of experience, but I've got a primary concern in my game- How can I take that next step from 'good player' to 'great player'? I realize, Diamond doesn't immediately mean I'll be playing professionals, but I feel like I've plateaued at my current skill level. I have numerous build orders in my arsenal, I usually scout well, I pay attention to the current meta game and I watch a lot of professional matches, but sometimes, I just feel like even when I do get into Diamond, I'll still be at that Platinum skill level. What are some general tips any Diamond players out there can give to help me progress from being good to great? Thanks. Read Ver's guide. It was written for BW but most of the mind-frame and skill-building applies to Sc2 just fine. | ||
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Dice.
United States78 Posts
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protoss22
United States41 Posts
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sfdrew
United States201 Posts
Watching the TL attack streams and listening to the announcers, you would think all you have to do is face-roll and you can get into Diamond. As they put it, "Diamond is the same skill level as just playing ICCUP in BW." I think that is a bunch of crap. The real problem is the relative nature of the Leagues and Ladders system. I don't know how good their algorithms are, but they don't seem to be that smart. You move up and down inside your own league by winning and losing matches in general and earning or losing points, but you move up and down leagues by winning and losing matches to people in other leagues. Think of it like a race. Let say you got 10 guys together, who partook in a race, and everyone of them beat the world record for a mile. Guess what? One of them still comes in last, no matter how fast he ran, because he was being judged by how fast he was compared to the other guys in the race. The racing problem is especially prevalent since we are all broken up into different division and not put into one big pool (which isn't a terrible thing). The fastest racers from one pool may be slower than the middle of the pack in another. It may be easy to get into Diamond in one division, and really hard in another, if you happen to have a lot of top tier players in there. Unlike a race though, you can't measure people's skill in starcraft based on their finish time like you can in a race. You can only compare their wins and loses, which is like just comparing their finishing place in the race. Let's say that I am a new player who is amazing. I play my first 5 matches and they are all against silver and bronze players. Even though I stomped them, I still get stuck in bronze because I didn't play players in high leagues. In theory, I will keep winning and moving up until I get to Diamond where I belong. What happens though, when I get paired with a couple other people in the same boat in Bronze and silver? I end up losing some matches to "low level" players and my advancement is stalled. On the other hand, let's say that I am a mediocre player at best, and I happen to win a match or two in my qualifier games against Platinum and Diamond players because they were playing an off race, or were drunk, or had to disconnect for some reason, etc.. I get placed in Platinum or Diamond because I beat "good players". In theory, I should move down as I keep losing, but while I am at the top, players who aren't very good who get paired against me will get credit for beating a "good player", and get credit for moving up. I don't have any data or statistics to back this up, only my knowledge of how it works and my experience playing. I have played with, and against people of every league, and honestly, I wouldn't have guessed where they were until I looked at their profile. The whole thing is a crap shoot. Don't pay attention to the leagues. That is my opinion. | ||
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guyGOTgirth
United States76 Posts
Though I would add: usually by looking at the division / points / number of games played u get a good gauge of actual skill. The actual division itself imo means close to nothing, like you said, based on the random placement of who you are matched up against in your placement games. So, if you see a person that is diamond / 500 points / 150 games played, he is probably a decent player. If you see someone that is diamond / 170 points / 20 games played, it's a crap shoot -- could be good, could be bad. | ||
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sfdrew
United States201 Posts
The kinds of people who play at those hours are usually better players because they play more, so you'll have more chances to move up. If you play only on Friday nights when everybody and their mother is on, then 50 wins could mean nothing if you hardly ever play people in higher leagues, but if you play at 3am, or on say, a Tuesday morning, then you will likely get paired with a lot more people in higher leagues, where 50 wins will catapult you to the top. | ||
Chill
Calgary25977 Posts
I would pick what works for you and try to tighten that up specifically. If you are good at making build orders, spend time perfecting your build orders. If you are good at macro, concentrate on streamlining expansions and pumping out a shitload of units. If you have good unit control, really force yourself to extract maximum value from your builds. If you are good at on-the-fly thinking, focus on scouting and countering through both unit production and tactics. I think you really only need a single good ability to do well in diamond at this level. | ||
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ScvReady
United States61 Posts
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
So If you play a diamond guy with 35games he might be bad, if you face a gold guy with 10games he might be diamondskilled but did not play enough games to get promoted. But the average skilllevel is low, pretty low. Reaching Diamond doesnt mean anything. You just dont have to be a total dumbass and play around 50games and try to improve after every game and you should make it in no time. Staying in diamond is easy as well. But the skillspread in diamond is huge. There are the goldish guys that allined/cheesed their way into diamond, then there are the solid guys(not much of a difference to platinium guys) Then there real good guys and on top of that the pros. But to finally get back to topic... its hard to take this step(I mean to become a really great player). You need the talent and the practice obviously. If you are intelligent enough to find something to improve on every single game, then you are lucky. If you cant find anything to do better then you might have reached your skillcap. You need some help or even coaching. But untill this point you just have to play many maaaanny games and try to improve. | ||
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fabioisonfire
United States81 Posts
My current 1v1 record is 212-192, so I'm +20, and I have 564 points. I don't know why I haven't been upped to Diamond yet, but I know that it's about to happen. I played Brood War (I was very young, however, and would just mass cannons or some shit.) for a short time, and I've always been a big Starcraft fan. Got the game on release day, and I sucked at first, and I've been getting better ever since (hence the many wins/losses). I watch Day[9], and regular commentaries from people like HD, Joshy, and Husky. Anyway, I always go 9 Pylon, and scout. VS. Terran, I almost always harass with my initial Probe, and I usually assume there's going to be Reapers or a bio-ball, so I usually go with 2gate1robo unless I see something else crazy. VS. Protoss and Zerg I scout at the same time, looking for the ever-common 2gate or fast Void Rays VS. Protoss and watching for any fast expands so I can overwhelm the Zerg opponent with units. I'm comfortable enough with the game to be able to adjust my build order depending on what my opponent is doing. I'd say my strength is definitely early game, cute tactics, micro, and unit control. My weakness is definitely late-game, without any doubt in my mind. I never know when to expand when entering the mid-game, so I'd say my macro needs improvements. I can provide replays, if anyone's really interested. Thanks. | ||
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