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Hi,
I recently played a FFA were I was playing zerg and macro'ed well until I faced a an unstoppable terran air. I tryed to counter it by massing corrupters but it sucked...
When a terran army reaches 200/200 of AIR composition; is it possible to stop it ?
I tryed some hydras & corrupters, but it doesn'T seems to have any good/hard counter to BCS/Vikings/Banshees.
I did some infestor too...
What can I improve ?
The attached replay.
I'm a bit desesperate about that game because my two main opponent didnt really attacked each others and that there doesn't seems to have counters to terrans air units composition.
On a side note, any FFA tips :D ?
Thank you,
Red
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I find that I have these same issues, what you got to do is scout all players and pick which ones are most likely to win and then hammer them first. I do this and also mass expand taking as much resources as possible, most people in ffa's just sit in base massing so it mostly works.
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On August 23 2010 14:57 RedSword wrote:
When a terran army reaches 200/200 of AIR composition; is it possible to stop it ?
Red
probably not. however, if you have enough resources you could rebuild your army instantly, and they will take quite a while.
If that wont work, battlecruisers are slow as hell, and you can just attack different bases without ever engaging.
But yeah starcraft was balanced based on single player not FFA.
havent done much ffa (2 games, one of them 2 people dropped at start) but i'd say high mobility units are much more valuable, and defense is very important.
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Mpphhhh. Thx for the replies, however, I'd want to know what are the best units against that compositions...
You need 28 corrupters fully upgraded to one shot a BC... And while one drop vikings and bc would prolly have taken 2+.
Infestors --> lol, you need like 15 of them to mind control all bcs + fungal growth banshees & vikings
...
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Mass voids take are the kings of mass air.
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On August 23 2010 15:28 febreze wrote:
Mass voids take are the kings of mass air.
Wtf....
Read the opening post at least; I'm zerg; never talked about void rays...
EDIT : And don't tell me to switch to protoss because I want to beat air terrans....
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On August 23 2010 15:37 RedSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 15:28 febreze wrote:
Mass voids take are the kings of mass air. Wtf.... Read the opening post at least; I'm zerg; never talked about void rays... EDIT : And don't tell me to switch to protoss because I want to beat air terrans....
Here is what he is saying:
1. infest a probe
2. build void rays
3. profit
... ; )
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If mass numbers I would like to recommend Mutalisk ! Try it ! In large numbers I think they would own the vikings !
EDIT lay protoss for ffa and mass carriers, a lot more fun then any of the zerg units !
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mutalisks cant do shit to battlecruisers, coz they got 6 armor full upgr.
from what i see, zerg has no counter to mass terran air, because if he add ravens, its drones would nullify corruptors easily and he would have those splash rockets to kill both hydra and corruptors...
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On August 23 2010 14:57 RedSword wrote:
I recently played a FFA were I was playing zerg and macro'ed well until I faced a an unstoppable terran air. I tryed to counter it by massing corrupters but it sucked...
Mass mutas but when you engage ... bring 30+ overlords with you, and move them in front of your mutas.
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You don't even need ovies, mutalisk splash just own viking.
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No mutas dont own Vikings. Vikings are def. cost effective vs mutas.
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A lot of clueless people here about mechanics eh? Overlords wouldn't tank for mutas, and mutas indeed rape vikings. But fail against raven or BC.
The fact is that you can't win FFA as zerg against equally skilled people. Your best shot is to be able to finish the game with best eco with limit mutas and some corruptors, while having also full upped ultratech to switch to if opponents are doing something stupid like massphoenix or thor. Sure you can kill BCs off with pure corrus, but you're left with nothing to actually kill him. This would leave you only able to play brood/corru. Anyhow, you need 4+ working bases to have a chance at resupplying in these situations. I don't think there's any chance in winning toss mass air as zerg either. It's simply not sensible to have 80% of your army only being able to hit air. That can be abused so easily by opponents switching their techs aswell.
Zerg is fine only because FFA players tend to suck overall. It's usually possible to overcome the imbalance because they fail in their eco, upgrades and such.
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I was in a 2v2 TT vs ZZ, they hard contained us for most of the game, all four of us went air, Vikings>corruptors quite handily, in a 400/400 fight, we ended up with a large surplus of Vikings (not actually four maxed armies, but close to it) and then just killed off expos for the win.
I guess if T goes heavy air, don't go air, or at least be tricky with your air use.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 23 2010 23:03 Ouga wrote:
A lot of clueless people here about mechanics eh? Overlords wouldn't tank for mutas, and mutas indeed rape vikings. But fail against raven or BC.
The fact is that you can't win FFA as zerg against equally skilled people. Your best shot is to be able to finish the game with best eco with limit mutas and some corruptors, while having also full upped ultratech to switch to if opponents are doing something stupid like massphoenix or thor. Sure you can kill BCs off with pure corrus, but you're left with nothing to actually kill him. This would leave you only able to play brood/corru. Anyhow, you need 4+ working bases to have a chance at resupplying in these situations. I don't think there's any chance in winning toss mass air as zerg either. It's simply not sensible to have 80% of your army only being able to hit air. That can be abused so easily by opponents switching their techs aswell.
Zerg is fine only because FFA players tend to suck overall. It's usually possible to overcome the imbalance because they fail in their eco, upgrades and such.
i actually have to agree with this, Terran or Protoss Big Air is just more potent that zerg's. Toss go either mass void or mass carrier (voids are better earlier, carriers are better once you get 10+), Terran goes either pure mass BC or mass BC/viking, adding in a raven or two when the need arises. A Terran with a good amount of BCs with yamato's can really put the hurt on any air fleet you're trying to boot against him.
Constant fungal growth might work though (i mean enough infestors to keep it up for a solid minute), if you can catch him by surprise. Good chance the T will ragequit after that one as well .
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Use lots of infestors. Air clumps alot so you can chain FG them from long range and they will die. Use mutas if they are heavy on vikings and MC the BC's (make them yamato each other) and use corrupters if they are heavy on BC (again MC half of them and make them waste their yamatos).
Don't forget to never stop injecting larvae and getting money - you will rebuild your fleet much, much faster than he will even if he has 6 starports.
Also if he's going straight viking/banshee I like to use mutas, but in the event he's got a few thors on the ground to deal with muta clumping you can do mass hydra and use FG to uncloak the banshees. Overseers get sniped fast.
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whats wrong with the corruptor to BL endgame play here? too slow?
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On August 23 2010 15:37 RedSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 15:28 febreze wrote:
Mass voids take are the kings of mass air. Wtf.... Read the opening post at least; I'm zerg; never talked about void rays... EDIT : And don't tell me to switch to protoss because I want to beat air terrans....
Just saying terran air is not that bad, relatively speaking.
However, if you insist on being zerg, go mass queens and spore crawlers. Hopefully this will make you the least desirably person to attack. Once terran has moped up everyone else, the map should be starting to be mined out. Use infestors if he engages, and heal up spore crawlers with your queens.
Mass corruptors/mutas are expensive and die quickly. The best air composition is to have a mix of both corruptors and mutas, just like in brood wars. Corruptors, though good against massive, have a slow attack rate. You need mutas for DPS once you cast that 20% more damage spell. However, I wouldn't recommend fight toe-to-toe against terran air, you'll be wiped out.
Best to save the gas for infestors.
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Mutalisks do not have splash, they hit exactly 3 units, so they do not become better with higher numbers. As both sides get upgrades, mutalisks become weaker, since armor upgrades negate 1 damage for each bounce, while attack upgrades increase damage by 1 for the main hit, but only by 1/3 and 1/9 for the bounces.
Mutas do not own/rape/whatever vikings. They are slightly weaker than vikings in a 1:1 ratio and become weaker as both sides get upgrades.
Stacked vikings actually underperform, when they are in high numbers, since that way they are very likely to attack the same target(s) and waste a huge amount of damage in overkill. If the enemy vikings are closely stacked then mutas are likely to win in equal numbers.
Allowing vikings to naturally spread out or positioning them, so they form an arc around the enemy force makes them much more effective and they will win against an equal number of mutas or corruptors.
In small numbers the corruptors will win in a 1:1 ratio, but since vikings are cheaper they are still cost effective.
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in FFA I am now convinced zerg is at a big disadvantage late game (you can't win with mass corruptor)
protoss is sexy (voids, carriers, stalkers, storm)
but terran is by far the best (BCs beat zerg, sprinkle a few ghosts to beat protoss)
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EPT
