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samuraibael
Australia294 Posts
Since this is the only pvz strat at high diamond I ever see Id like to workout how to handle it on maps that dont permit spine turtling. Maps with a back door maps do not permit spines yet they are the only response I can find in every 4 gate thread. Moving them is not viable. There seems to be no way to beat a ball of protoss gateway units at that point in the game. Is the only answer catching them out of position before they clump up? 700+ diamond | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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DracuL
27 Posts
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
The 4-gate is just a numbers game. 1100 Z. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
Works very well. | ||
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samuraibael
Australia294 Posts
Injections are ok for me, I dont miss them until late game. But when I go pure ling guardian shield normally makes them totally ineffective. Do I need to bait this? I usually try to wait until the last minute to engage so I have max units but this is too late to bait anything. As for the quick hydra options. Whats the BO for this? How many gas do you need and do you get range upg or the extra 3 hydras? | ||
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whomybuddy
United States620 Posts
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On August 23 2010 14:19 samuraibael wrote: Pure speedlings fist? Injections are ok for me, I dont miss them until late game. But when I go pure ling guardian shield normally makes them totally ineffective. Do I need to bait this? I usually try to wait until the last minute to engage so I have max units but this is too late to bait anything. As for the quick hydra options. Whats the BO for this? How many gas do you need and do you get range upg or the extra 3 hydras? It's hard to give an exact BO because you'll have to customize your drone count based on your intel of what they are doing. 14 hatch, 15 pool I almost always do. Drone to 16, extractor, queen, OL, drone. Start mining gas. Queen finishes, get lair and start the second extractor. Get ling speed, and once the lair finishes build a hydra den. Hopefully you have spotted 4gate now, at which point you stop making drones and start making ling/hydra. Stay on 2 gas, don't invest in upgrades. If you get about 8-10 hydralisks and there's no push, you can start building drones again and getting upgrades, but keep an eye on his base for robo. Also it is smart to get an overseer to make sure he's not watching your entire army with an observer and scout. If you see a robo, contaminate it, even if it's a suicide mission, and attack. You should be able to run him over with this army. His army composition is very important. If he spots all the lings and goes heavy zealots, get a baneling nest and 10 or so banes, keep them with the hydras so they don't do anything stupid. If you see something like charge come on the zealots, then I like to go Roaches. Charge might mean HTs are on the way and you don't want to face HTs with ling hydra. | ||
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StupidFatHobbit
United States98 Posts
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samuraibael
Australia294 Posts
14 hatch 15 pool is pretty risky. Any cheese or a standard 2 gate will give them a straight bo win wont it? | ||
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Makavw
Croatia165 Posts
On most maps you cannot build spines due to wide open natural or backdoors. If you stay one base they will have way more resources then you, if you expo ; you need to somehow defend it. Pure speedling doesnt work due to zealots, pure roaches doesnt work due to stalkers . Combination doesnt work either since they can outmanuver you in combat with forcefields and superior range. You cannot go hatch first cuz 2 gate will lose you the game right of the bat. I still need to experiment with spending the 100 gas for lair to rush hydras ASAP , cuz if you spend first 100 gas on anything else then lair, hydras will be too late  . | ||
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
If you stay one base they will have way more resources then you No they won't, Protoss doesn't get any inherent advantage for resources that Zerg can't contend with. If you are going to stay 1 base you have to get a secondary hatchery to match their 4 gates though otherwise you won't have the larva. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=143291 some good suggestions there. I agree with both of these: On August 23 2010 13:42 Butigroove wrote: +1 carapace speedling/hydra is what I do when I scout 4wg, and it works very well. On August 23 2010 13:49 Fistdantilus wrote: Also, don't over-drone. If he's not making a move for an expansion and you see the 4WG, then you have to match his army. Get hydras faster, and get more zerglings until hydra den finishes. You're probably making too many drones and so you don't have a big enough army when toss breaks through. You don't have enough time to saturate both of your bases before the attack comes. After you survive the attack, THEN you can drone up. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Even on a wide open nat I'll still build 3 spine crawlers. This way you can buy yourself some more time and can prevent the protoss player from just rushing into your mineral line or some other choked up area. | ||
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Logyx
United States14 Posts
Bainlings are your friend... that early in the game anyway. Also, don't fast expand when you scout a 4 gate. 1 base until you get muta, and then go muta-ling, expand, and wait for him to GG. Edit: To explain a little better. Bainlings will take care of his Zealots, and that frees up your speedlings go for the stalkers. Keep pumping those and weaving in drones until you can get spine crawlers up. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
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Ezareth
United States60 Posts
In reverse a good Protoss can correctly minimalize the damage of zealots by spreading them out. | ||
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Steamboatlol
United States161 Posts
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Jollyburner
Canada190 Posts
On August 23 2010 13:49 Fistdantilus wrote: More zerglings, try to bait the force fields before you fully commit. The better I got/get at my injections, the less of a problem it becomes. Also, don't over-drone. If he's not making a move for an expansion and you see the 4WG, then you have to match his army. The 4-gate is just a numbers game. 1100 Z. +1 | ||
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