[H] TvP mid-game

On August 14 2010 18:45 FoUsTy wrote:
Don't go mech, add marauder medivac 1/1 take exp orbital bunker, take third planetary...gg.
TvP is imbalance all game, but really imbalance at early mid late... On mid/late toss got a little chance.

Just my thnik...not general.

On August 15 2010 05:28 Treva wrote:
Yeah I feel that I need ghost against P period no matter what I go because who doesn't love to EMP a huge group of HTs/DTs or anything with a shield :-P, but yeah I agree with you Setz I'm not real big on tanks vs toss just because I don't think they pack really a much needed punch that you get out of vT or vZ so with that being said I think more bio with some maybe banshee/medi support and ghost is the way to go as long as those emps go off on the right things at the right time I see the build being good, now off to the build order tester!

On August 14 2010 18:18 superbabosheki wrote:
In TvP, Terran is the reactive race while Protoss holds most of the cards.

On August 14 2010 18:18 superbabosheki wrote:
In TvP, Terran is the reactive race while Protoss holds most of the cards. 3 gate robo, 4 gate, 2 gate voidray, etc, each one has a different response. Aggressive terran openings in my opinion are shut down a bit too easily, or can be completely annihilated by one void ray.

Opening marine/ghost was also a favorite of mine, but I no longer use it due to it's pretty bad transitioning, and can get demolished pretty easily by a well spread toss, + good force fields.

I am a 850ish terran player and find that opening 1-1-1 is pretty much the best way to get to the mid game. If I see only 2 gates, I assume hidden stargate. If I see 3 gate robo, I go for tank/bunker into expand(very very heavy on rines). If I see 4 gate I just bunker up while cloak banshee rushing. Best way to scout is a delayed reaper, if that fails its lucky scans or guesswork T_T

The midgame is pretty much where you want the game to end, since if it becomes a split map type of game, protoss will will be ridiculous to deal with. They can seriously go mass cannon/templar at expos, tech switch to void rays, completely dodge your army until your tanks are out of position, etc.

Honestly, I don't think mech works to well vs protoss, just because of the threat of a tech switch to mass void rays. Just stick to tank/marauder/marine/raven/ghost, positioning and microing in the engagements is the tough part due to collosus and storm. Microing a mid-late game terran army is NOT easy. You have to keep tanks in a good position, kite with marine/marauder, while dodging storms and collosus, throw down pdd, and emp with ghosts. Make sure you have at least 3 control groups for your units, and just micro the shit out of the big engagement since if you come out ahead you can just do a death march to his main.

Just like in BW, defensive play/expanding, into a strong push is probably what TvP will turn into in my opinion. Right now the maps are just flat out terrible so builds, etc, are very situational.

On August 15 2010 08:05 kme wrote:

I'm curious, what do you do on maps with backdoors. Do you still go 1/1/1 or do you somehow adjust.

On August 15 2010 15:45 LaiShin wrote:
Fousty is most definitely trolling.

I don't think i've ever won TvP after it reaches mid-game unless the P over-expands or doesn't macro enough. Mid-game onwards, it's all about sniping collosus/templars before the fight starts.. Sniping collosus is easy, but templars require a bit more precision and i'm horrible at that.

Last resort is flanking them!!

On August 15 2010 16:23 gogog0 wrote:
I have no idea what some people here are talking about, in TvP the protoss DEFINITELY dictates how the game will be played. there are just so many more options open. the toss can go standard ground, DT's, void rays, etc etc. And each of the protoss strats needs a precise counter or its instantly game over. Don't even get me started on late game. I don't think I've won a single game against protoss which lasted over 20 mins.

On August 15 2010 17:47 Setz wrote:
I have uploaded a couple of replays to demonstrate a "safe" terran opening against protoss in high level play. In the two replays it proves effective against both an early void ray tech and early immortal tech. Hope they help.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/56960-1v1-terran-protoss-kulas-ravine
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/56955-1v1-terran-protoss-kulas-ravine

On August 16 2010 03:46 S.K. Ren wrote:
Nothing and I mean nothing the protoss has can stand up to 80+ Stimmed marines backed by Medivacs AFAIK. If you find yourself losing to Protoss mid-game and have the resources, wall off and just start building Marines and Medivacs until you die.

On August 16 2010 03:46 S.K. Ren wrote:
Nothing and I mean nothing the protoss has can stand up to 80+ Stimmed marines backed by Medivacs AFAIK.

On August 15 2010 15:54 superbabosheki wrote:


Skill level? Toss shines in late game, due to how fast they can rebuild an army, tech switch to void rays, defend expos with storm/cannon, still have walking death stars, have map hack units, flank/avoid a terran ball and waiting for it to get out of position, etc.

It is so hard for Terran to take out expos because of the risk of getting backstabbed(which is in the tosses favor, he can take out your bases for almost no cost while he warps in templar and stays cost effective vs your main army).

edit: terran flank? wtf lol

On August 16 2010 13:55 XXXSmOke wrote:
However, I do suggest doing a MMM ball build on steppes of war instead of 1/1/1 I just find that build still superior cuz theres too much open area for tanks.

On August 16 2010 13:07 goobahman wrote:
In my humble opinion TvP is much more micro focused mid game then anything else.

On August 14 2010 18:00 Treva wrote:I just need a general understanding of what to do with mech as T against P because right now I just seem like I get crushed with whatever I throw against P because I don't really know how to use it against P. I can make the units sure but the execution is what I am having trouble with. Any advice on how to approach mech against P would be great. Thanks.

On August 16 2010 18:03 kar1181 wrote:
I think the problem with TvP 'midgame' (and it's not as pronounced as with Zerg, but its origins are the same) - is the early game.

A 111 Terran build, imo doesn't cut it, because any protoss opener *has* to include super fast stalkers. A 111 will put the Terran behind with any kind of early stalker harass, even if the Terran pops up a bunker.

However the threat of early reapers and the ridiculous strength of a 3 rax bio build,with/without ghosts, forces the protoss to gear up a certain way and they cannot expand until they hold off the bio push. Now any 400+ diamond protoss has to have learned how to hold the first push, but it's such an effort to do, and it gives the terran the opportunity to expand first and get an economic lead. 3 rax isn't an instawin (although, at low diamond and below it usually is) but it forces the game to a certain way. And it's impossible to force it to go any other way AND survive the opening push.

Now void rays can help, there's a small window just after you've held the 3 rax push where you can go on the offensive. But the typical followup to the 3 rax is to hold with marines, and then pump out 3-4 vikings. The flying siegetank then shuts the window and the Terran is ahead in macro and from there has initiative a solid defense and an economic lead.

So it comes down to a battle for expos, and trying to find a chink in the terran turtle. While being vigilant you don't take a massive hit from a drop yourself.

Sadly attacking a biomech turtling terran is a bit like Russian roulette, where the Terran gun only has one bullet, but yours has 5.

Protoss can't just sit back and defend because if 5-6 tanks rock up out the front it's already gg. You have to engage Terran in the open and on the move.