So I just lost a match to a zerg on scrap station. Obviously his 7 pool was strong because he knew exactly where to go. I'm not going to post a replay, because honestly, what is there to see? He built a pool on 7 and rushed with 6 lings. I spotted them with my scouting probe but I was only able to get one zealot out in time, which of course went down. and so did ALL my probes. I had several of the lings surrounded and killed them but somehow he managed to kill them all.

I fended off two more pushes of lings but my economy was so crippled that I could almost nothing to stop him. Each push punished me more and more until I couldn't fight back anymore.

He was in my base at 3 minutes. How the hell do you counter this? I saw it coming and had no answer.

Dance.

United States389 Posts

August 06 2010 20:50 GMT

Scout it....build your gateway by your nexus, chrono your zealot and micro...not that hard.

EDIT: now that i think about it, you'll probably build your gateway whereever you decide to put it before you scout, so just pull a few probes off the line and micro with zealots. then its gg

Bibdy

United States3481 Posts

August 06 2010 20:53 GMT

There is no 100% immunity. You have to suffer casualties, same as a super-fast Reaper proxy. The real question is can you suffer few enough casualties to remain ahead after he crippled his own economy pulling it off?

In general:

Don't use Chrono Boost on Probes when you eventually spot the early Pool. Save it for Zealots.

Don't let your Zealot get caught out in the open and surrounded by all 6 Lings. Fight with your back up against a geyser, minerals, gateway, pylon, whatever is nearby.

Don't chase the Zerglings around forever with all of your Probes. Use a handful and try to surround them and engage, leaving some Probes to continue mining so you can make at least two Zealots quickly. Some Zerg keep running away, trying to cripple your economy by THREATENING to kill Probes, rather than actually killing them.

Building your Pylon and Gateway close to your Nexus is sometimes a good idea, so your Zealot isn't exposed and always has a building to hide up against, but this leaves you exposed to later Speedling harassment if you don't plan in advance for a one-Zealot-wide choke point at the 5-6 minute mark, so its a bit of a tossup.

Don't get supply blocked on the 2nd Zealot.

Edit: Oh and try not to fight the Zerglings at the edge of your mineral line with Probes. If they all cluster up and it ends up as a wall of 3 Zerglings battering down 2 Probes at a time, then they're going to tear them to shreds. You need to get them off the line entirely and fight just outside the Nexus, or pull them into the line and surround them in there. The more Probes you have engaging, the better.

shawster

Canada2485 Posts

August 06 2010 20:55 GMT

you can block off your ramp with pylons and stall until you get enough zealots, then when he breaks it down use your zealot+probe combo to beat his lings back

Skrag

United States643 Posts

August 06 2010 20:58 GMT

If you lost a zealot and all of your probes to the first attack of a 7 pool, then you really should post the replay, because you did something *very* wrong when microing.

The number of probes you have when the first 6 lings get there should be enough to take all six lings with minimal losses, WITHOUT the help of a zealot.

sfdrew

United States201 Posts

August 06 2010 21:09 GMT

After watching the replay a second time I realize that I had the money to place a second gateway to block the ramp. Also, my second pylon wasn't at the ramp, so if I had placed it there it would have made my choke smaller as well.

The zealot actually wasn't out by the first push. I had been using my chrono boost on probes so when I saw the lings I didn't have any energy to use on my zealot. He made it out in time to kill the last remaining lings that were low on health, but so what? He killed all my probes.

I guess next time I'll try to block the ramp better and save a boost for my first zealot, just in case I get cheesed again. Still, it is very annoying.

This is a tough build to deal with if you aren't planning on it. You really can't scout soon enough, because by the time you do, it's too late.

askke

United States5 Posts

August 06 2010 22:31 GMT

I usually save a chrono boost for for my gateway until I have scouted my enemy's base to make sure there is no cheese. A chrono'ed zealot should be out in time before they do too much damage

UnderWorld_Dream

Canada219 Posts

August 06 2010 22:45 GMT

Crazy how much details you have to take care of to fend off this simple 'strategy'. Not to mention they only have make a pool...

7 poolers on Steppes of war are driving me crazy

88 Posts

August 06 2010 22:50 GMT

On August 07 2010 07:45 UnderWorld_Dream wrote:
Crazy how much details you have to take care of to fend off this simple 'strategy'. Not to mention they only have make a pool...

7 poolers on Steppes of war are driving me crazy

Why is it crazy? Its one of the earliest rushes possible, and if you hold it off with minimal losses you've already won the game. Zerglings are weak, we all know that, keep your zealot from getting surrounded and micro a few probes, zerg will have absolutely no economy to follow it up if he fails.

Keap

United States214 Posts

August 06 2010 22:59 GMT

#10

I like to put my first pylon at the ramp and scout right away, I generally leave room for 1-2 zealots at the wall anyway, so if I see a 7pool I just choroboost away and get a few zealots to plug that hole. After I know I'm ok against zlings I immediately put down cyber core and go sentry-stalker-sentry to be ok against blings and setup a 3-gate robo or 4 gate. It's always been gg from there pretty much, zerg is so severely crippled by the 7 pool that it's close to impossible to stop a standard push into expansion

Vaporized

United States1471 Posts

August 06 2010 23:05 GMT

#11

right and what about the myriad of proxies etc that get thrown at zerg. probe micro is all you need to fend this off. too bad drone micro won't save you from a proxy 2 gate.

TheTuna

United States286 Posts

August 06 2010 23:17 GMT

#12

Worker's AI actually rips up 6 zerglings pretty well, I can attest to this from much 6pooling for lol value.

If he goes with just 6 lings, swarm him with your workers and you'll probably be fine. The big mistake a lot of people make against 7pools is panicking and trying to run with the workers, letting them get picked off.

Take on 6 lings with 15 workers, and you have pretty solid odds at winning. Optimally rushing a Zealot would be good, as you don't want his incoming reinforcements to cripple you.

Deleted User 3420

24492 Posts

August 06 2010 23:18 GMT

#13

to me fast pool like this is real f'ing strong in that it can deny any scouting, and it's real scary to have to try to guess if they are going roach, going lair, just pumping more and more speedlings, or if he's expanded and is droning

kinda like sc1

at least there aren't lurkers lol

Netherlands12045 Posts

August 06 2010 23:24 GMT

#14

scrap station is one of the hardest map to stop cheese by zerg considering the open entrance.

You have 2 choice: either use the 2 gates build at the pathway near the 3rd to seal of the deal, OR instant ly stop probe production, save money to spam pylons and wall off your choke.

2nd choice require a fast reaction, early scout and a little bit of luck but it gives you more option to open vZ on that map

edit: Travis, we r in same division =)

ionlyplayPROtoss

Canada573 Posts

August 06 2010 23:27 GMT

#15

if you don't forge expo vs zerg put your gate at ramp in case he does 7 pool or bling cheese

Afterhours

United States125 Posts

August 07 2010 02:02 GMT

#16

I like to make general "rules" on certain maps. For example:

Against Zerg on Scrap Station? I will 10gate.
Against Zerg on Lost Temple at 12/6? 12 or 13gate depending on what I scout.

Fitz

Canada77 Posts

August 07 2010 02:09 GMT

#17

Crazy how much details you have to take care of to fend off this simple 'strategy'. Not to mention they only have make a pool...

7 poolers on Steppes of war are driving me crazy

Do you know how much details a zerg faces against a simple early double gate zealots pressure ?

As for the OP, well you'll have to pull a couple probes and micro them along with your zealots, you can also pylon block your entrance while waiting for zealots to pop. Even if you loost 3 or 4 probes in the process you'll come out of this years ahead.

nahk4r

United States47 Posts

August 07 2010 10:18 GMT

#18

perhaps making a spawning pool is very easy. but the focus of this build is to try to beat the protoss in microing, because once this is stopped then the zerg simply types "gg" and leaves.

you have to face completely blocked off chokes, probes + zealots, what to attack, what to move, etc because for one thing protoss is way up in mineral count and you don't you are forced with a certain amount of zerglings and perhaps some drones but that still doesn't help too much.

making the pool at 7 drone isn't the focus here. the focus here is to actually devastate the protoss base in order to either win or be at the same place you are at which... well... unless you kill everything except for nexus and the protoss has very little minerals left.

Yuka

United States133 Posts

August 07 2010 10:23 GMT

#19

Whenever I see such an early spawning pool, I put down a forge as a precaution. Keep your scouting probe in your opponent's base to make sure, then decide on whether you need a photon cannon put down early game or not.

FiWiFaKi

Canada9859 Posts

August 07 2010 10:42 GMT

#20

Defending a 7 pool is very easy.

12gate, chrono your zealot, should be out right when ling arrives, attack with zealot and 7-8 probes. If you scout it early a 12 14 gate will end it right away, or you can continue the tech build after you kill the lings. Forge is useless, wallin may be good since usually their follow up is more lings. 7(5 pool?) pool feels very weak compared to bw, only the smarter ai attacks probes too.