EPTIf they go mutas i pretty much striaght up win with a colossus push, if they open hydras then i get to do SOME harass, at leasdt i can kill stray overlords etc.
[D] PvZ Muta/Ling - Page 9
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3578 Posts
If they go mutas i pretty much striaght up win with a colossus push, if they open hydras then i get to do SOME harass, at leasdt i can kill stray overlords etc. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
Some observations so far: - I enjoy using my early zealots to harass a little, I know if I can force out roaches it would delay his spire/lower his muta count by a little. If he concentrate on roaches too much a pair of VRs nds the game. Cannons can be used to fight roaches. Wall off with zealot is mandatory as zergling runby is very deadly... - I rely on cannon for detection if I suspect tunneling claws. - I have to be rather aggressive with phoenixes (sp?) once i get 3-4 of them for overlord hunting. (opponent might bring home mutas while he get spores up). In PvZ I feel I would lose the moment I let them have complete map control with mutas so I must fight that. - ~8 phoenix can deal with a small number of hatching hydras. - Guardian shield + FF on ramp is very important when you attack. - I have no clue how to deal with mutas+corruptors w/o relying too much on stalkers... corruptors with their 2 armor eats phoenix alive =/. I saw the use of feedback to deal with corruptors so maybe I can try that... but it takes such a long time to get a templar archive running =/. | ||
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Stutte
Sweden13 Posts
And I completely disagree that +1 air does a lot, I always research it well in advance and find it does very little difference. And with phoenix costing more than corruptor/muta, even on equal economy they will still have more of those units than you. I guess my real beef is that Corruptors are so good against phoenix. imho nerf is needed, either to range, or armor. It's just too easy to get a few corruptors in the muta mix and do terrible, terrible damage. On August 21 2010 17:23 b_unnies wrote: What's the disadvantages of going completely zeal+archons by the time u get temp archives? Add in immortals/colossus depending on their units. Seems like it counters muta/ling, but what counters zeal/archons during midgame for Z? The disadvantage is that your army size will be very small because Archons are insanely expensive (between 300-400 gas per unit, more than a colossi!) and you won't afford additional gas units such as colossi even on two-base. On three, maybe, but you need to be super-aggressive with your army, and I'm not sure it's viable, since much like stalkers they're very immobile and you're constantly subject to muta harass. | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
i just lost to 2 base mass muta its all they make and stalkers do shit. you need to hit them with void rays first and force them into hydras. | ||
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bueks
Germany19 Posts
I think that there is very little i can do when zerg gets that unitmix. However, i can hardly prevent them from getting there. It's not like i dont macro enough. Usually zerg and i both sit on two bases and as soon as he makes use of his mapcontrol to get a third, i have to make a move. I cant suprise him because he scouts everything with his mutas and so hes always prepared for whatever i throw at him when i move out. When i go for more than one stargate, i usually dont have enough stuff and just die to his ground army. Just ignoring 3-4 phoenixes and go in for the kill seems to be a good counter for zergs against me, since my apm are very limited and i cant really make use of forcefields/zealotwalls to stay alive. | ||
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Stutte
Sweden13 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:32 Stutte wrote: Phoenix rely on heavy micro, but as soon as he builds 3-4 corruptors you are completely inferior in the air, so if you go phoenix you have to have a followup. this is true. Have been trying phoenixes DTs lately and realize overseer and overlords are armored units which means it takes ages for phoenixes to kill them. also Muta can come with mass number once you got 3 phoenixes out and they simply will rape you in air battle. the best answer to muta lings is not air tech but stalker and without cannons at 1 of the 2 bases, stalkers cant keep up with the mobility  | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Say you open phoenix, see Z building a spire so you know those annoying corruptors are gonna come and ruin your phoenixes what's the viability of putting up a 2nd (or if u have expo) even a 3rd stargate and running phoenix/void ray ? | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:45 travis wrote: I have a question for ya pvz theorycrafters out there Say you open phoenix, see Z building a spire so you know those annoying corruptors are gonna come and ruin your phoenixes what's the viability of putting up a 2nd (or if u have expo) even a 3rd stargate and running phoenix/void ray ? well if he goes corruptors he's gimping himself so heavily it's not even funny since stalkers are already more cost efficient then mutas a warpgate attack is just brutal for zerg if he has like 20 stalkers handful of zealots and sufficient sentires to shield and ff. by going phoenixes you're destroying what mutas do best, harass and be mobile. he needs a ton of mutas to be able to beat your stalkers, about a 5:4 ratios which is pretty bad for zerg. and by going corruptors he's just asking to be rolled by a ground army. | ||
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zhul4nder
United States189 Posts
I'm not that great of a player but i've found a certain build very effective against zerg. I open with zealots while teching to stargate. Around the time their second is up, I have three gates and a stargate. I then harass with the void ray forcing either spire or hydras and a lot of queens. Since zerg is on the defensive, i have the opportunity to expand. Only, make sure you have a lot of zealots as zergling runbys are incredibly hard to deal with with just air. Make sure you expand with a forge as you will need the cannons for muta defense. Once you see mutas, start pumping pheonix and start on blink tech. It should pretty much put you in the advantage here because he'll have to expand to even the match up. Take that timing window when he expands to attack with blink stalkers/zeals/pheonix. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:45 travis wrote: I have a question for ya pvz theorycrafters out there Say you open phoenix, see Z building a spire so you know those annoying corruptors are gonna come and ruin your phoenixes what's the viability of putting up a 2nd (or if u have expo) even a 3rd stargate and running phoenix/void ray ? Never tried it, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be that strong. Voids are slow and need 7 seconds to charge, so phoenix-void ray will cede a big micro advantage to muta-corruptor. If we could just talk the mutas and corruptors into standing still while the charged voids blast the corruptors, however, I think we might have something. | ||
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green.at
Austria1459 Posts
@ travis: voidrays are only good when charged, and you cant keep them charged all game. so if corruptors catch you uncharged its over (corruptor + muta). | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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gREIFOCs
Argentina208 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
I agree that archons aren't exactly stellar versus mutalisk, but if you have the weapon upgrades, you have to remember that you can have a lot of zealots, and one archon for every three mutalisk. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 26 2010 04:19 Salv wrote: Has anyone really tested the viability of just mass archon & zealot versus muta/ling? If you threw up a forge and teched archons once you a scouted a spire, you could probably get +1 or +2 weapons and small pile of zealot/archon. Zealots are very effective versus lings, and if you can get +1 or +2 on them, you can take them out in 2 hits. I agree that archons aren't exactly stellar versus mutalisk, but if you have the weapon upgrades, you have to remember that you can have a lot of zealots, and one archon for every three mutalisk. i tried... archons just aren't as good... mutas can crush em up and they can super harrass ur base while u get em cuz u don't have any stalkers | ||
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eth3n
718 Posts
On August 26 2010 04:19 Salv wrote: Has anyone really tested the viability of just mass archon & zealot versus muta/ling? If you threw up a forge and teched archons once you a scouted a spire, you could probably get +1 or +2 weapons and small pile of zealot/archon. Zealots are very effective versus lings, and if you can get +1 or +2 on them, you can take them out in 2 hits. I agree that archons aren't exactly stellar versus mutalisk, but if you have the weapon upgrades, you have to remember that you can have a lot of zealots, and one archon for every three mutalisk. I am a noob but there is rarely a ZvP where i will get ground armor slower than P get ground weapons, lings are too precious :D | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:45 travis wrote: I have a question for ya pvz theorycrafters out there Say you open phoenix, see Z building a spire so you know those annoying corruptors are gonna come and ruin your phoenixes what's the viability of putting up a 2nd (or if u have expo) even a 3rd stargate and running phoenix/void ray ? Well first of all Z never counters phx w/ corruptors. Sure corruptors beat phx in a straight up battle, but they both do pitiful damage to each other and take forever to kill. It's just not very cost efficient. Z almost always goes hydras. I wouldn't say it forces Z to go hydras because they can do stuff like mass speedlings, I'm just saying this is the usual Z response. I think I saw corruptors like once ever, and all I did was pick off the mutas and then run my phoenixes away. It doesn't matter if I can't kill the corruptors b/c corruptors can't harass my base. Void Ray/Phx just makes you even more susceptible to a hydra push, so I don't know why you would bother. Like I said, you don't need to counter the corruptors, they are a useless unit vs toss other than vs collosi or carriers. | ||
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