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High Plat player (me) vs Diamond Player (P)
Just finished a match against a protoss on Scrap Station. Going MMM ball with some tank support and was getting some good scouting in at the start, right when scout dies he throws up 3 more gateways.
I was saving my 2nd 50 energy for a scan but by this time it was too late to tell, but even if I would of known from the start that he was 4 gate rushing I don't think I would of been able to counter it.
Our income and unspent resources were identical, however his army size was like 4x as big as mine.
I build 3 rax, 1 factory, 1 starport.. factory was building a tech lab but that didn't even finish by the time his huge army was at my door, I massed marines at the start.
What could I have done differently or what is the counter to this?
- Don't build a star port and focus on getting a fast siege tank?
- Get Stim faster and add more marauders to the mix? even though he had mostly stalkers?
Thanks for taking the time to help.
Replay:
http://www.mediafire.com/?vmdy2ghz4ui
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Im not a terran player, but I know that 2-3 tanks in siege shut down my 4gate most of the time.
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yep... probably... a sieged tank 
generally, try to use siege tanks against protoss... if you follow the TL forum you may have mentioned that many protoss struggle with Terran Mechplay atm... add mainly marienes to deal with a possible 3 gate immortal push or early void ray aggression and mostly you going to be fine. Gateway stuff gets vaporized against siege tanks
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Couple big mistakes:
- you were doing some mixed tech opening. A 1-1-1 opening is fine or a barracks focussed opening is fine but you had 3 raxes and factory+starport tech going meaning you had too much invested in buildings and too few in units. I'd suggest to go multiple raxes and later starport or fast startport with just 1 rax.
- marines are quite weak unupgraded, especially against stalker + sentry. With pure marine starts you need some bunkers generally or need to scout he isn't opening aggresive (which toss usually does). Marines can't punish stalkers for hit and running you either without a bunker..
- Bad position at the deciding battle, no use of the ramp advantage ie. blocking the zealots.
4 gate rushes are quite easy to stop as terran just properly use the ramp and bunkers.
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tech strait to the fastest siege mode you can get
your several units behind your wall can beat back any rush that comes before siege mode finishes
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i succeded to counter it with marauders + marines + gohst. siege tank are easily beatable with blinks, MMM + ghost is the best immo
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On June 03 2010 21:08 buncool wrote:
i succeded to counter it with marauders + marines + gohst. siege tank are easily beatable with blinks, MMM + ghost is the best immo
you can't go 4 gate and get blink off one base with continuous production of units, so blink is normally out of the question until the P gets his natural up. Ghosts are great against P and I suggest adding then into your unit composition if your going bio, but if your going mech you don't have enough gas off one base to pump from factory starport and ghosts from rax.
You have to decide to go mech or bio after you put down your first barracks, you can't really start to combine them until you have your natural up.
A lot of terrans are having trouble with mech at low levels because it requires much more intensive micro and multitasking, I would stick to bio as Terran until you get really solid macro.
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First and foremost, you had no idea what the other player was doing.
Second of all, your positioning was terrible. Your entire army (mass marines) is outside your wall instead of inside it.
Third, your unit composition was bad.
Pretty much every standard TvP build would demolish 4-gate Protoss. You could have gone 1/1/1, or 3-rax marauder/rine mix.
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So what would be a good composition for TvP? I'm also having the same trouble as poster but its just that i die to either 2 gate stalker pressure or the 2 immortal push
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On June 03 2010 21:50 MayorITC wrote:
First and foremost, you had no idea what the other player was doing.
Second of all, your positioning was terrible. Your entire army (mass marines) is outside your wall instead of inside it.
Third, your unit composition was bad.
Pretty much every standard TvP build would demolish 4-gate Protoss. You could have gone 1/1/1, or 3-rax marauder/rine mix.
Sorry for my ignorance: What is 1/1/1? 1 rax 1 fact 1 port?
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On June 04 2010 08:47 Impeller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 21:50 MayorITC wrote:
First and foremost, you had no idea what the other player was doing.
Second of all, your positioning was terrible. Your entire army (mass marines) is outside your wall instead of inside it.
Third, your unit composition was bad.
Pretty much every standard TvP build would demolish 4-gate Protoss. You could have gone 1/1/1, or 3-rax marauder/rine mix. Sorry for my ignorance: What is 1/1/1? 1 rax 1 fact 1 port? Yeah. Popular for its versatility
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1) build bunkers
2) build engineering bay
3) if 4 gate get building armor upgrade
4) if void ray get +1 range on turrets
5) roll out with large infantry army before templar tech hits and win.
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Sorry to bump an old post, but Im just real excited that I have FINALLY beaten 4 gates with the help of this post! I was 10% win factor against it now Im 3 wins in a row. Thanks a lot guys! You renewed my hope in myself lol!
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Holy thread necro, batman! I wish I were a forum cleric so I could cast *turn unthread*!
It's great to hear that you've beaten a 4gate using bunkers, though. You'll see this all-in across a variety of skill levels in PvT-- other methods of scouting for it include a fast hellion (if you're going for a quick factory)-- I like Warden's 1-1-1 guide for scouting in TvP-- and it'll help you hold other all-ins as well. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753
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bunker mass reapair and u must find perfect unit count u need for ur build, thats what i can tell without watching replay
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EPT
