EPT[G] PvZ - By Salv - Page 3
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
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kyarisan
United States347 Posts
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TheOracle
Australia256 Posts
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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Booshack
Denmark15 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
I'm surprised you can handle a growing muta ball mid-game with stalker/sentry/cannons. In my experience, if toss makes cannons at his main + nat, I take that opportunity to take a 3rd (usually high-yield) and end up way ahead with 3base 3/4/5hatch + 3queen macro. Usually I only end up losing to a protoss that counters my mutas by using either phoenix or archons. I can usually beat a colossus + ground army by using muta/roach + just enough corruptors to counter the colossus (usually 2-3 per colossus does the trick). From a supply cost standpoint I can maintain a 3:1 corruptor:colossus ratio (always comes out in my favor), and I usually have the econ to support it by having a 3rd base up and running before 4 colossus + thermal lance are ready. Anyway it's possible I haven't played any really good protoss colossus users. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On May 31 2010 07:57 Ndugu wrote: Really enjoyable guide. The idea I found most useful and surprising is to not micro away from corruptors. I always try desperately to save my Collosi from them, and it always feels extremely futile... because it is. Wonder how many battles I've lost without that advice. I'm guessing similar logic will usually apply to Vikings? I usually have a decent cannon wall on some maps if I'm on the defensive because they are very effective against almost all zerg forces, especially compared to zealots as a mineral sink, and I find that if I force them to engage here, microing Collosi away will be very effective, as the Corrupters are forced into range of them. Have also been trying to integrate a semi-fast expand into my play after watching white-ras excellent games in HDH. Protoss really benefits from making it to mid-game versus Zerg. Trying to run the colossi away from air to air units is almost never a good strategy. Colossi are meant to be dps units, low health and high damage. The only time you want to run from air units with colossi is if you are running towards something that can kill the air. Cannon walls are better at stopping zerg rushes, but zealots can be carried over to midgame to pad your army and colossi. Sentries are your best friend if you try to expand against a zerg opponent. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On June 02 2010 05:31 bobcat wrote: Colossi are meant to be dps units, low health and high damage. haha, if colossus are meant to be low health units blizzard fucked up royally  | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 31 2010 06:17 Salv wrote: That being said, the same potential drawbacks to the Protoss race remain. Often times you will be the defender, or will be forced to play patiently. A lot of games can revolve around your opponents' tactics and your skill at stopping their attempts, some times it can feel that you're not in control of the game and are only reacting to what your opponent does, this is something that you must get used to. Amen. This is why I love the Protoss playstyle. Its very exciting to not have that control, and very rewarding when you pull off the right counter-strategy. On May 31 2010 06:17 Salv wrote: Overall, late game is very similar to mid game. There are some new annoying units to deal with, and some new Zerg tactics can cause problems, but if you are having a lot of trouble late-game, it's most likely a problem with your mid-game. Remember that a Zerg that is left alone for long periods of time are most dangerous, inject larvae allows them to mass drones very, very quickly, to the point where even flawless mid-game play can be countered easily by their superior economy. Amen 2.0. Fuck Desert Oasis. That map is so totally bullshit if the Zerg chooses not to fast expand. If he fast expands, great. Charge into either base with a Warp-Gate push and collect your win. If he goes for fast Hydras or Mutas? Consider yourself screwed. I hate winning or losing a game based on a single early decision from my opponent. The bigger the map gets, the harder it is to apply pressure to an opponent that is going to utterly rape you without pressure. Very well-written guide, thanks. I prefer getting an early Observer for a scout, rather than Hallucinations, since that Sentry energy is so crucially important in the early game. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
On June 02 2010 02:37 BlasiuS wrote: Usually I only end up losing to a protoss that counters my mutas by using either phoenix or archons. I can usually beat a colossus + ground army by using muta/roach + just enough corruptors to counter the colossus (usually 2-3 per colossus does the trick). From a supply cost standpoint I can maintain a 3:1 corruptor:colossus ratio (always comes out in my favor), and I usually have the econ to support it by having a 3rd base up and running before 4 colossus + thermal lance are ready. I agree, if you don't make phoenix when they make mutalisks you're going to have a rough time. Maybe you missed this part, but I did address this: If the opponent makes mutalisk, the key will be to see how many they make. If they continually make more mutalisk or are reinforcing their group, it's best to add a stargate. Phoenix's (non-hallucinated of course) are very effective versus mutalisk and can still be useful to you later in the game. I learned very quickly that the best way to counter air harass is to get air units yourself. Trying to defend with ground units is a bad idea. The cannons are to hold off the mutalisks until you can get phoenix's of your own. | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
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brainlizard
United States17 Posts
You hit the nail on the head with the positioning. I play zerg and random, and when I'm zerg vs. toss, once he has a set of colossi, my entire game-plan centers around using my creep highway to catch him in a surround. If we fight straight up, the zerg just die horribly. It's not even just that the colossi are exposed, but if I catch him in a surround, his FF and AOE are dramatically weakened, and my infestors are WAY harder to micro against (I love infestors for how they drive the micro requirements way up in fights). | ||
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
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Stormzors
Australia41 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
On June 03 2010 11:26 Stormzors wrote: Nice strat I'll defiantly check it out. Although after watching the 2 replays you really didn't do much scouting with the phoenix at all, especially after how much hallucination is involved in the description. Hallucination plays a limited, but critical role. The 10 gate expansion has a hard time gaining scout information, and a three gateway push is fine, but if they mass lings you will lose automatically. Probe scouting is too slow, and I needed to figure out a way to effectively scout in a way that couldn't be denied, and phoenix hallucination was perfect. After I find out their tech, I don't need to scout them any more. I might send out a phoenix to check expansions every once in a while, but I don't feel it's necessary to use hallucination past it's intended purpose. I suppose if you really wanted to you could hallucinate colossi when you battle, it's up to you to use the hallucination for further creative uses. In actuality, you should been relieved that the hallucination is only needed for a small, but critical period, because that means any further creative uses will just add to your advantage, and aren't necessary for winning. | ||
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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