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I have played several Ts on Steppes where they build a CC and float to the island. I scout his main/natural with obs with my standard 2-3 gate into robo build, see a few less M&M than usual but no natural, so I assumed he had some around the map. Two minutes later or so I got suspicious and scout the corner, by which time he has a planetary fortress up. If I scout the CC earlier perhaps a bust would have been possible at his main but usually the CC is flown out before the obs arrives. I don't play zerg and am not entirely sure how effective sc2 turrets are vs muta or nydus vs PF, so I can only comment on PvT. My experience so far with a fast island base from T is that they are extremely difficult to do anything about.
What doesn't work:
-Ferrying over or warping in large parts of a stalker/zeal/immortal army. PF getting repaired by 20 workers is extremely cost effective vs anything ground in range.
-Air (void rays); you wouldn't get them normally in pvt, spamming turrets and then canceling them would be cheaper to the terran from his FE than the gas you sink into buying void rays.
What does work:
-Ranged collosus to a degree. The problem is that having a spare ranged collosus obviously is quite late in the TvP game. So late that they may have a medivac, in which case a couple of marauders ends your collosus. Or repair the PF while building 1 viking. Or they may also just binge extra minerals on turrets, which can also do a number on your collosus.
Any way you look at it it seems quite inefficient to take out island expansions as toss right now. To me the best solution would be to have maps with that 1 mineral patch like in BW. EDIT: astute poster has noted that you can carry SCVs, so this doesn't solve that problem (unless you can't unload scvs while airbourne).
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On March 10 2010 07:19 Trap wrote:
Any way you look at it it seems quite inefficient to take out island expansions as toss right now. To me the best solution would be to have maps with that 1 mineral patch like in BW.
How would that be a solution? Couldnt the T just load up a couple scvs into the CC and just unload them?
Hmm....perhaps a mothership is the solution.
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Oh right, forgot about the whole carrying scvs business. Scratch that. Also no way mothership would work, by the time it hits they'd already almost be mined out of the island.
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Well, could you tell me some effective way how to take out protoss island expansions with cannons as terran? Add one or two HTs to feedback everything which flies and you got pretty grim scenario.
Easy solution is to put some destructible rocks there. It's not like handful of SCV can destroy them in any realistic time...
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Sure any island once established can be difficult to crack (though point defence drone or banshees would work fine vs P island), I'm saying that T can get an early expansion which basically can't be harassed until late game. But the destructible rocks sound like a good idea.
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10387 Posts
Pretty sure that future maps will have mineral patches on the island to prevent this sort of thing anyways.
On March 10 2010 08:43 Roulette36 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 07:19 Trap wrote:
Any way you look at it it seems quite inefficient to take out island expansions as toss right now. To me the best solution would be to have maps with that 1 mineral patch like in BW. How would that be a solution? Couldnt the T just load up a couple scvs into the CC and just unload them? Hmm....perhaps a mothership is the solution.
if the CC can't land the SCVs can't be unloaded right? On larger islands they put multiple patches to prevent the CC from landing
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Protoss should just go for the main instead.
Let's say Terran has his main an the island expansion, while Protoss has his main and his natural. A large amount of Terran's resources go towards building turrets and a planetary fortress. Protoss does not need to spend any money on cannons. Two base vs two base, Terran has a huge disadvantage in resources due to expenditures that never comes into use . Therefore, Protoss would win.
Another thing you can do is mothership recall while on an impassible terrain. The units get recalled to the closest piece of land, so you can recall into the island without hovering over it.
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If you scout a small MM force w/ no ghost, chrono boost a few immortals and go. Should be a free win if he's spend 400 min on a CC early game.
If you do see a Ghost, there may be some timing push you can do, but I haven't seen a powerful enough one yet.
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On March 10 2010 08:53 Trap wrote:
Oh right, forgot about the whole carrying scvs business. Scratch that. Also no way mothership would work, by the time it hits they'd already almost be mined out of the island.
since the cc carries max 5(?) scvs, you could make the patch 30+ minerals so that they'd have to load, unload, mine the minerals, load, unload, have the scvs return the minerals, and load, land, unload.
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On March 10 2010 10:25 aeroH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 08:53 Trap wrote:
Oh right, forgot about the whole carrying scvs business. Scratch that. Also no way mothership would work, by the time it hits they'd already almost be mined out of the island. since the cc carries max 5(?) scvs, you could make the patch 30+ minerals so that they'd have to load, unload, mine the minerals, load, unload, have the scvs return the minerals, and load, land, unload.
Yeah, it all comes down to Blizzard not being good at creating tournament maps. A bit of Kespa level map design and these problems will go away.
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Steppes doesn't have and island. And why not just expo yourself? A PF doesn't give the mule, so you'll be ahead with a 2nd chrono...and you won't be out 150/150. Sounds like T's should be complaining not you.
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EPT
