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I created a new build/strategy (may be already created) ONLY AGAINST TOSS
1. 12 pool (no gas)
2. 14 hatch (in opponents base)- should be hidden
3. Ping the map and tell your opponent you have a proxy hatch
4. The first zealot of the toss and some probes are likely to attack hatchery (The toss would of walled off)
5. While this was happening, you should of been pumping zerglings. Stop drone production when you get the hatchery.
6. When the wall off zealot or units is not there, flood in with your zerglings
7. i primarily try to snipe the pylon, but you could do something else
8. The game should be yours if he had only 1 zealot out. ( Dance with the probes while more come)
Well thats my build/strategy....
It could definitely improve...
You should get a queen when your pool finishes... if you have enough minerals
Please comment below to criticize my build. Practiced this against gold players.... there might be difficulty pulling this off :D glhf
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On May 09 2011 07:52 sokPIZZAZZ wrote:
I created a new build/strategy (may be already created) ONLY AGAINST TOSS
1. 12 pool (no gas)
2. 14 hatch (in opponents base)- should be hidden
3. Ping the map and tell your opponent you have a proxy hatch
4. The first zealot of the toss and some probes are likely to attack hatchery (The toss would of walled off)
5. While this was happening, you should of been pumping zerglings. Stop drone production when you get the hatchery.
6. When the wall off zealot or units is not there, flood in with your zerglings
7. i primarily try to snipe the pylon, but you could do something else
8. The game should be yours if he had only 1 zealot out. ( Dance with the probes while more come)
Well thats my build/strategy....
It could definitely improve...
You should get a queen when your pool finishes... if you have enough minerals
Please comment below to criticize my build. Practiced this against gold players.... there might be difficulty pulling this off :D glhf
This is like the third post i've seen you write this in. Please stop posting this nonsense.
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glad to of gotten some clarification on what all these bracketed letters mean, was beginning to get confused. Also, what is the requirement for evidence in discussion threads? Am I at risk of being banned if do not always have strong evidence to back my opinions?
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On May 28 2011 17:21 .Mthex- wrote:
glad to of gotten some clarification on what all these bracketed letters mean, was beginning to get confused. Also, what is the requirement for evidence in discussion threads? Am I at risk of being banned if do not always have strong evidence to back my opinions?
Lets imagine there is a discussion about an all in build. You can say "its easy to hold off with 2 bunkers", but without a VOD, screenshot, replay or what ever, this is rather useless. If you do not have evidence it means you did not see or play this, so its just guessing. However, if you are just guessing, you could as well join a game try it out and then post the replay and say "you can/can't hold this with 2 bunkers".
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[L/H]
Dear all: I can't make a new topic yet. But I have a big problem: I'm starting out SCII and am playing online since two days and I realize that I need to automate a build to get better. Problem: Which build to use? I've seen the recommended threads, but there's no real video with the first two tvx builds (and I don't want to do a 6rack, it takes the fun out of the game).
My question: Is there a nice overall build I can start learning and practicing as a Terran player. Because I'm hopeless now and have NOTHING to fall back on, I'm really insecure :S. I don't even know good pro players who's build I could study  I'm the freshest noob you can imagine.
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is it true that we cant discuss balance on teamliquid?
im sorry im very new to all of this and i want to follow the rules so im trying my best :/
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Here's how a balance discussion invariably ends
Just don't even bother unless it's something so painfully obvious even the race in question generally agrees with your sentiment. Also theory crafting isn't a good way to fit in. Welcome to team liquid!
+ Show Spoiler [zatic] +
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Dear Admins,
In the near future I am planning to post on Zerg strategy through an analysis of IdrA's play. I am not sure which tag to use for my post. I'm not even certain that my post is strategy forum worthy. I was hoping to get some feedback on these two points.
The premise:
For the past week I have, for my own personal benefit, been intensely studying IdrA's ladder play through the recorded VODs on his stream. My analysis:
(1)The (video) time at the start of each ladder match. The matchup. The map.
eg: 1:25:13 ZvP Tal'Darim
1:34:18 ZvZ Tal'Darim
1:44:50 ZvP Shakuras
1:57:16 ZvZ Shakuras
(2)The opening IdrA uses in each specific match.
eg: 1:25:13 ZvZ Tal'Darim
15 Hatch. 15 Pool. 17 Gas.
(3)Anything notable in his decision making. So a full match description would look like this:
1:34:18 ZvZ Tal'Darim
15 Hatch. 15 Pool. 17 Gas. @100% Instant Roach Warren. Scouts opponent is 1-base. 1 Queen at natural. Opponent is aggressive with sling/bling. Pure lings to defend until Roach Warren finish. Pure roaches to defend. Delay lingspeed until safe w/ roaches. Roach/ling all-in after seeing little followup aggression from opponent. (Assumed opponent took his natural).
So far my analysis covers two streaming sessions - August 3rd 6PM and August 7th 6PM. There's a LOT more data to go!
I am a mid-masters Zerg player. This analysis has been EXTREMELY useful to me, and I think it would be nice to share it with the TL community to help out fellow Zergs and encourage them to do the same.
I realize each game is situational. That's why I have gone through many games. Through this I have identified patterns in IdrA's play, and I have adopted these patterns into my own play.
1) I have identified patterns in his mechanics - the little subtleties and shortcuts that make IdrA a mechanical/macro beast. In general, I have found his mechanical style is very different from other top Zergs. Very calm, relatively low APM and low spam. His mouse accuracy, I feel, is his greatest mechanical attribute. But there are also subtleties that increase his efficiency. For example, while executing his opening he camps his mouse on the position of his next egg rally and spams until the larva pops out and the rally is set. Little things like this give him free time to think, to spot and prepare for cheese, etc.
2) I have identified patterns in his openings. ZvZ is always 15 Hatch 15 Pool 17 Gas. (except Tal'Darim, which is sometimes 15 Hatch 16 Gas 15 Pool.) I have a feeling he sometimes alters his openings according to his opponent's style. ZvP is 15 Hatch 15 Pool 17 Gas, (unless a probescout comes before his hatch timing, then he will 14 Pool, no gas, and attempt to kill the probescout with 2 drones for a 16 hatch). ZvT is 15 Hatch 15 Pool 17-18 Gas. I know Zerg openings aren't a huge huge deal, and every pro does them a little bit differently, but knowing and memorizing IdrA's openings for each matchup/map has made me a LOT more confident going into games. I don't have to worry about things like "Shit, I forget if I should go extractor before pool"
3)Finally, and most valuable, I have identified patterns in his decision making. From my analysis I know exactly the build order and decision-making steps he will take when reacting to a 1-base zerg in ZvZ. a 2-rax in ZvT. A forge FE in ZvP, etc.
The practice of marking each game with video time + matchup + map has also been helpful to me. For example, If I am unsure of where to send my overlords in Xel'Naga ZvT, I can quickly check through my records of IdrA to find a ZvT Xel'Naga game and see where he sends them.
So there you go. These are just some examples I could think off the top of my head at work, but I have a LOT more stuff written down on my word document at home. Would a post like this be worthy for a strategy forum? If so, what tag should it be, [G][D]? Any advice or additional things to include? Thanks.
-Nairul
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Good Job Nairul!
Many of your listed things seem really "true", because I recognized it, too.
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Hello, the post I submitted just got closed for "baseless theorycrafting without evidence." I'd like to point out that knowing what's *not* a viable strategy sometimes is as important as knowing what is. The people arguing the point of the strategy not being viable in that thread provided evidence--mathematical even, however the topic was still close for lack of evidence?
Please explain. Post made by moxie on Macro Nexus.
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Zurich15325 Posts
Well you know now that it is no viable, the question has thus been answered and the thread was closed. I don't see the problem.
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Hi
I was wondering how you should use a macro hatch. I have seen people like LiquidRet use them to spread creep, and I have seen them placed close by for defense. I personally use them to spread creep as that is a part of my game that needs improving.
Thanks
VoNova
Sorry if this is put together badly I am writing this from an iPod.
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On August 27 2011 09:06 Coler5ta wrote:
Hi
I was wondering how you should use a macro hatch. I have seen people like LiquidRet use them to spread creep, and I have seen them placed close by for defense. I personally use them to spread creep as that is a part of my game that needs improving.
Thanks
VoNova
Sorry if this is put together badly I am writing this from an iPod. .
Edit:
Aargh please ignore this I got confused by the interface and cant find out how i delete it
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I asked this in the simple questions and answers thread but perhaps this is not quite that simple nor quick to read xD
On October 09 2011 12:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Hey guys I would like an opinion ^0^ it would be great if you can help me.
I'm planning on making the following guides:
1. [G]TvZ Hellion/Banshee Expo <---- Opener
Description: Reactor Hellion Expand into hellions and a couple banshees; contain/delay the zerg from taking his third, while you are ready to take your third (before his!) at 9:10.
27 characters, 2 over the limit, though you would still see "Exp..." at the end...
2. [G] TvZ Thor/Hellion/Ghost <---- General guide
3. [G] TvZ Mech Air <---- General guide
4. [G] TvZ Raven/Marine <---- General guide
5. [G] TvP 2Port PF Expo->Air <---- Opener + General guide
Description: Gas first 1-1-1 banshee opener into 2 Port, into PF Expand, into mass air units. Title is 25 characters (preview limit is 26 I believe).
6. [G] TvT BF Drop Thor Poke
Alternate names?
[G] TvT BF Drop + Thor Poke into Mech
[G] TvT Rainbow's Mech Opener
etc.?
Guides #3 and #4 use #1 as an opener. However, I plan on making #3 and #4 to be full, in depth guides. Would it be reasonable to keep them as separate threads, and just link them in Guide #1 under "transitions"? As an opener, Guide #1 won't be that long, but it'll still cover the basics like Scouting, Build Order, Replays, Mindset, Adaptation, Timings, etc. If I put #3 and #4 into it it would be very very long, but I'm not planning on including more than 1 opener for #3 and #4 other than the opener in Guide #1, and I don't want to make in-depth descriptions of all possible follow ups (it is a opener after all). I think I would like to keep them separate but I'm not sure what TL mods would prefer. On one hand, it's more organized to separate them into threads (like on Liquipedia), but on the other, it can be in 1 thread and be a very "complete" thread. My Guide #5 is just 1 opener and 1 follow-up so I'll keep it as one thread.
Also, can anyone give general feedback to the names of these potential threads? I want them to fit in the preview, if you think that is important.
Additional info: There is already a TvZ Marine/Raven guide, but, along with my TvZ Mech Air guide, they will be about a specific strategy starting with the Hellion/Banshee Expo opener, rather than talking about all possible openers, all possible ways to play them, etc. Would it be more appropriate to title them "TvZ Gumiho's Mech/Air" and "TvZ Yoshi's Raven/Marine," to signify that they are about specific plans rather than exploring every single aspect surrounding a Mech Air or a Raven Marine composition?
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Go for it. Just get good reps so you can wave rank 1000 masters around without being hubris about it.
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I would very much like the community's attention to be drawn to Plexa's recent [H] thread (link) as an example of what a Strategy Forum thread should look like.
Points:
- OP is well formed, contains a small selection of pertinent replays and describes both the overarching theme of the question at hand and game-specific details that flesh out each specific instance of the question.
- Jackasses who respond instantly with meaningless advice are immediately shut down by OP/Admin (same person in this case), preventing an immediate derailing into a meaningless debate on an unrelated issue.
- A large number of posts containing actual constructive criticism.
- OP responds to constructive criticism in a positive manner and with followup questions.
- The result: a useful conversation with a high signal to noise ratio from which players with similar problems can learn without having to wade through pages and pages of bad posts to find the nuggets of useful information.
I feel like the thread should be highlighted or otherwise somehow flagged so that more people look at it. If every thread in the Strat forum looked like that I'd spend a lot more time reading and contributing to it.
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On October 31 2011 21:04 AmericanUmlaut wrote:I would very much like the community's attention to be drawn to Plexa's recent [H] thread ( link) as an example of what a Strategy Forum thread should look like. Points: - OP is well formed, contains a small selection of pertinent replays and describes both the overarching theme of the question at hand and game-specific details that flesh out each specific instance of the question. - Jackasses who respond instantly with meaningless advice are immediately shut down by OP/Admin (same person in this case), preventing an immediate derailing into a meaningless debate on an unrelated issue. - A large number of posts containing actual constructive criticism. - OP responds to constructive criticism in a positive manner and with followup questions. - The result: a useful conversation with a high signal to noise ratio from which players with similar problems can learn without having to wade through pages and pages of bad posts to find the nuggets of useful information. I feel like the thread should be highlighted or otherwise somehow flagged so that more people look at it. If every thread in the Strat forum looked like that I'd spend a lot more time reading and contributing to it.
yup it is a great OP!
Just wanted to share something. After making my first guide and replying to the responses, I have only just realized how frustrating it must be as people who make guides simply because most of the responses have not either finished the guide nor watched a single replay. They just come in and theorycraft (and they do it poorly, too) and do not give any replays as evidence; and some are even disrespectful/rude. From reading the strategy guidelines, so many of these posts are violating the rules
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EPT
