I originaly had an other map planned for this month and this contest but since the balance of the map is really questionable without any play testing (but potentially really easy to fix) I prefered to go for the safer option and post this map. I'll post the other map later. See the other map here
Features :
Size 134x138
Rush distance Main to Main : 61.5 secondes
Rush distance Natural to Natural : 44.4 secondes
Backdoor rocks (rush distance main to main becomes 59.4secondes when both rocks are down)
For some reasons the backdoor rocks aren't showing...
Description that I forgot to add in my email to the map-ximum map contest T_T : + Show Spoiler +
The map is almost blink stalker all in-proof
I'm quite proud of my back door rock, it doesn't reduce the rush distance too much, it doesn't seem too exposed to all in and early game agressions. It's also easy to wall off and if your opponent comes up you'll be able to get a nice concave while the 1 FF ramp and the vespene geyser will mess up his positionning. If the defender is bold enough to risk the move, he can destroy the collapsable rock which would leave only one path of attack to the ennemy. The back door rock offers a nice 4th or 5th base once it's destroyed, or either a 3rd but it seems way harder to do eventhough it shares a lot of similarities with Alterzim Stronghold's third base.
the xel naga towers are offering a great control of the low ground but the highground stays hidden in the fog of war.
The gold bases are quite close from each other but they are really hard to take and secure, I was wondering if I should keep them of remove them and add a ramp instead. I decided to keep, they look cool. An other reason is that with an other ramp, the center area of the map (grey textures) would be over-used and no one would ever use the snowish area where the XNT are.
As requested I made a few changes. I enlarged the 4 middle ramps. Now the collapsable rock only blocks half of the ramp and the other ramp is fucking huge but it doesn't look weird so it's ok.
Now the mail sent to the Map-ximum contest is obsolete T_T. Semmo help !
On September 10 2014 23:44 The_Templar wrote: Blizzard 3v3 maps are good inspiration apparently.
eh, wouldn't say that, the original is pretty horrible, this map however is extremely well designed, but time will tell if algue can reproduce this quality, the aesthetics need a boost atleast imo. well deserved first place in terms of design, just would like to see it look better.
Shameless bump to announce that the map will be used (along with Proleague's Outboxer) during the Underdogs, a french competition featuring the best french players (Dayshi, Lilbow, Firecake and MarineLorD to name a few) and organised by O'Gaming (the same who did Nation Wars and IronSquid).
The first games will be played on monday (2014/09/29) on Ogaming's stream (I guess it's this one). However there's no guarantee that the map will be played. I'll try to get the replays or the VoDs of the games.
Hey! Nice looking map, and congrats on getting it into a tourney.
A couple of notes from my very biased Terran perspective (so take them with a grain of salt), it looks to me like turtling on 3 bases is going to be extremely easy for a Protoss because of how close the bases are by land, and harassing them is also very, very difficult because there's not a lot of dead air, and it looks like a couple of Stalkers at both the nat and third can actually prevent anything from getting into the main full stop.
Looking at King Sejong for instance, the land distance from left of nat to right of third is quite a bit longer (50%), so it's harder to defend, and on top of that the main, nat, and third are all wide open to drop harass.
I'm not good enough to just playtest them and see but I hope this is useful for you anyway!
On October 04 2014 07:26 pure.Wasted wrote: Hey! Nice looking map, and congrats on getting it into a tourney.
A couple of notes from my very biased Terran perspective (so take them with a grain of salt), it looks to me like turtling on 3 bases is going to be extremely easy for a Protoss because of how close the bases are by land, and harassing them is also very, very difficult because there's not a lot of dead air, and it looks like a couple of Stalkers at both the nat and third can actually prevent anything from getting into the main full stop.
Looking at King Sejong for instance, the land distance from left of nat to right of third is quite a bit longer (50%), so it's harder to defend, and on top of that the main, nat, and third are all wide open to drop harass.
I'm not good enough to just playtest them and see but I hope this is useful for you anyway!
Honestly the setup doesn't look that easy to defend, especially because there doesn't seem to be a place where you can have your main army defending two bases at once without being really in the open, so you'll still be open to harass if your positioning isn't really crisp, which is a good thing. I still think this will be a fine map for Protoss 3 bases play, but I'm pretty sure it won't be broken.
On October 04 2014 07:26 pure.Wasted wrote: Hey! Nice looking map, and congrats on getting it into a tourney.
A couple of notes from my very biased Terran perspective (so take them with a grain of salt), it looks to me like turtling on 3 bases is going to be extremely easy for a Protoss because of how close the bases are by land, and harassing them is also very, very difficult because there's not a lot of dead air, and it looks like a couple of Stalkers at both the nat and third can actually prevent anything from getting into the main full stop.
Looking at King Sejong for instance, the land distance from left of nat to right of third is quite a bit longer (50%), so it's harder to defend, and on top of that the main, nat, and third are all wide open to drop harass.
I'm not good enough to just playtest them and see but I hope this is useful for you anyway!
Honestly the setup doesn't look that easy to defend, especially because there doesn't seem to be a place where you can have your main army defending two bases at once without being really in the open, so you'll still be open to harass if your positioning isn't really crisp, which is a good thing. I still think this will be a fine map for Protoss 3 bases play, but I'm pretty sure it won't be broken.
Actually the easiest 3rd for P might involve breaking the backdoor and taking the adjacent base. If you do this, you could build a full wall of the nat and keep your army close to the 3rd, and your army won't ever be out in the open.
Against Z, I'm OK with walling the nat, but against T I'm not so sure. Your army takes a lot of time to go from the third to the nat, and I think that wall would get busted again and again.
Sadly I have very little data on this topic (3 base protoss on this map). However I just updated the OP with the replays and the VoD of the GongSL. It's not much but it produced interesting games. 3 replays and one VoD isn't making a relevant sample size but from what i've seen :
The backdoor harass has a lot of potential (see the [recommended] TvZ replay)
The "secret" path between the 3rd (12 and 6 o'clock) and the 4th (4 and 10 o'clock) shows a lot of potential too, it offers a lot of possibilities to the players to harass and escape.
Most of the map is being used, the players are roaming around quite nicely. They don't make a beeline to the opponent's base while ignoring the rest of the map.
The games tend to drag into the macro games which is nice since most played tend to go for an all in when playing on a new map.
Based on these assumptions, i'd say that using your multasking to harass the main through the backdoor while harassing the third through the secret path is encouraged and can really throw off a protoss player camping on 3 bases.
PS : Play test it if you want, no matter what your league is. Ultimately the aim of a map is to be played by everyone, not the pro players only. Don't forget to send the replay though
I watched the recommended TvZ VOD from GongSL but was disappointed. T attacks early, basically winning the game, and Z is gas-starved for a long while; but for some reason T doesn't take the gasses at the third either and allows Z to come back. Meanwhile, like 5 or 6 lings slooooooowly break down T's back door, which goes unnoticed because T doesn't even bother to get any vision there. T's inaction allows Z to get to 4, then 5 bases, while T stays on 4 geysers on 3 bases. Z then slowly kills T by having way more stuff. The most interesting part about the VOD was Z burrowing blings on the backdoor ramp and saving lots of drones at the 4th base from being slaughtered by evacuating them through the "secret" pathway.
In general, I really like this map. It has a nice flow to it, and I'm a big fan of backdoors as well as asymmetrical expansion patterns and ambiguous thirds/fourths. In fact this map very much reminds me of one of my own WIP maps, but with one additional base.
Here's a couple of things I'd consider improvements:
Moving the unbuildable bricks to the other side of the ramp would allow P to wall at the Nexus.
If reapers could jump into the main from near the backdoor, TvP would get a little less volatile and more interesting.
Adding rocks to the ramp at the third near the "secret" path would make that base more viable to take early, especially for P. Consider that the defender's position is already potentially more stretched than on other maps because of the backdoor. It would also make the "secret" path more interesting.
The rocks at the backdoor ramp look weird since the rocks are 6x6 but the ramp is narrow. Maybe use smaller rocks? You can also scale rocks, I think.
Also, I believe the map would be better without the collapsible rocks, but I don't like those things much in general so take this with a grain of salt.
By the way, since you said you're not sure about the gold bases, have you considered turning them around and putting them on the low ground? This would allow them to be taken more often in games while still being difficult to defend, and it would keep the strategic value of the central high ground area. Either way, I like the fact that there are central gold bases very much, so whatever you do please don't remove them altogether.
Overall, this is a great design, and certainly much better than any of the recently added ladder maps.
Thanks a lot guys, I didn't expect that they would take such an old map as the only community map for the WCS 2015 season 1 map pool (this thread was created in august and the map was made in july). Now this means that 2 french men have had their map on the ladder
To be honest i never liked this map , gold bases useless , weird main , and i hate that you have to do the long path to reach your enemy natural if you collapsed the rocks. Guess I'll veto it. Gratz anyway.
Gratz on getting to the ladder. This is the only map of the new maps that I have any hope for. I suspect the backdoor to main to be broken as fuck once the pros get their hands on it (I bet Catz already has some proxy hatch shit cooked up), but well see. Otherwise looks pretty decent, not a fan of the goldbases though, can't see a way of taking them unless you have already won.
On December 19 2014 23:09 Elche wrote: Gratz on getting to the ladder. This is the only map of the new maps that I have any hope for. I suspect the backdoor to main to be broken as fuck once the pros get their hands on it (I bet Catz already has some proxy hatch shit cooked up), but well see. Otherwise looks pretty decent, not a fan of the goldbases though, can't see a way of taking them unless you have already won.
It doesnt look/feel much different from KSS backdoor natural and I assume people are going to take their 3rd/4th in that area anyways. In particular Terran wil probably just float the third CC there, break down the rocks and rally through that base, so no extra-stretching being done.
This map and Vaani Research Station seem to have EXTREMELY slow mineral collection rate. Every map need not be Overgrowth where minerals go up so fast you feel like you're already playing LotV, but this map and Vaani are really really slow to this regard, to the point that some builds that normally don't require to cut probe production now need to do so. Do you feel it too or is it just me ?
On December 23 2014 05:51 [PkF] Wire wrote: This map and Vaani Research Station seem to have EXTREMELY slow mineral collection rate. Every map need not be Overgrowth where minerals go up so fast you feel like you're already playing LotV, but this map and Vaani are really really slow to this regard, to the point that some builds that normally don't require to cut probe production now need to do so. Do you feel it too or is it just me ?
If you are playing on the version I uploaded it could be that the game isn't set on faster speed. This issue came to my attention recently but since my main computer is broken I can't fix it :/
If you played on faster speed, there's no reason for you to mine slower than on any other map.
On February 01 2015 11:15 Antares777 wrote: This was just posted to Reddit. There's an invisible force field. I think it may have to do with a terrain object. I figured I should repost it here.
The terrain object making the force field invsible (the ice I suppose) was placed by Blizzard. As you can see on my main post, my version of the map doesn't have these small ice sheets.
On February 01 2015 11:15 Antares777 wrote: This was just posted to Reddit. There's an invisible force field. I think it may have to do with a terrain object. I figured I should repost it here.
The terrain object making the force field invsible (the ice I suppose) was placed by Blizzard. As you can see on my main post, my version of the map doesn't have these small ice sheets.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ndELTXe.jpg?1)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bwBQF27.png)
