|
Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
+ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2014 04:22 NemRaC wrote:CJ Biome 2.0 (visual update) by NemRaC![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xcLSba0.jpg) After my map got "flamed" a bit, because it won the TLMC4, I thought I should redo the optic. I got some inspirating by a rework of the mapmaker Etcetra. Now I'm at the point that I wanted to show you guys the map and ask for some advice or tipps to make it better . I would like to know which region needs the most work , which you like the most and what i should do with the middle which is pretty boring at this point Here some more pictures of the map : AlbumEdit: also playable on [EU] [US] [KR] to check out the map by yourself
@NemRaC:
When testing the map I found out that some mineral lines arent rotated correctly, mostly the 3rd and 4th bases. You need to check the unpathable terrain in those mineral lines and make sure they are all placed correctly.
|
I was bored so I decided to make a boring standard map in the tradition of Ohana, Bel'Shir Beach & Vestige, Yeonsu, Overgrowth and so on:
![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/standb_04bg5jq6.png)
Name: Ohashi Ronsowth
Size: 144x144
Main to main: 64s
Nat to nat: 43s
Awesome features:- Backdoor
- Natural geysers siegable from third
- Gold bases
- No watchtowers
- If you stare at the overview real intensely a clown face will appear.
So whaddaya'll think? Totally the next Cloud Kingdom, amirite?
|
Having a backdoor to the main immediately means the map is not standard. Decent map overall, although the 3rd base might be a bit hard to take.
|
On May 24 2014 22:01 moskonia wrote:
Having a backdoor to the main immediately means the map is not standard.
I know, but it just wouldn't be an And G map without it. ^^
Could you be a little more specific about the third? Like, which third, which matchups, against what kind of aggression, ...
I think the non-backdoor third is about comparable to the third on Overgrowth, no? The attacker has a somewhat stronger position sitting between natural and third because of the ramps in front of the natural, which seems to be mostly a problem for Zerg to me, but unlike on other standard maps the defender can bypass that position and go for a runby or a flanking attack up the gold ramp to attack from three directions, so forcefields aren't strong here. Also, even if you get the hatch cancel you can't easily prevent a Zerg from just expanding to the backdoor base instead.
Or am I missing your point here? Also, do you see a specific problem with the backdoor other than it being non-standard?
|
Thinking some more about the thirds on this map and backdoors in general as well as Habitation Station which is by far the best map ever made, I just had an idea for an interesting base setup (since this thread is supposed to be about "all things WIP" including concepts): How about a backdoor expansion similar to the one on Ohashi Ronsowth, except with both ramps leading to the central area being large and blocked by rocks, and the base being a gold base?
For illustration, it could look like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
Not to be taken to mean that I think this would work on this particular map. In fact I think the best layout for this would be similar to Habitation Station, i.e. axial symmetry with the gold bases being located close to each other between the main bases, and most likely not with any other gold bases on the map...
|
And G, I actually really like that map. The gold bases are quite a bit "win more" but I think they'll be similar to how it worked on Planet S, so it's okay.
The gold base 3rd with rocks idea is fine except that terran could float there without any vulnerability... =\
|
On May 25 2014 01:02 EatThePath wrote:
The gold base 3rd with rocks idea is fine except that terran could float there without any vulnerability... =\
That's indeed the central thing you'd have to design the map around, and why I feel this would work best on a map like Habitation Station. Could you imagine HabStat with the gold ramps facing the centre of the map? And before the rocks to your own main are down that base would be super vulnerable to air harass, right? Which would also make it easy to deny gas mining there.
So basically, such a semi-island gold third would be well protected initially against early-game ground attacks, but once you take out the rocks it becomes very vulnerable and on top of that opens an attacking path into your main. If two large ramps aren't enough to balance Terrans lifting off CCs and dropping mules, you can remove the high ground advantage or even invert it. You could also add more entrances, or expose the mineral line like on HabStat.
So the difficult part seems to be figuring out how much protection would too much, or too little.
|
On May 25 2014 01:28 And G wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 01:02 EatThePath wrote:
The gold base 3rd with rocks idea is fine except that terran could float there without any vulnerability... =\ That's indeed the central thing you'd have to design the map around, and why I feel this would work best on a map like Habitation Station. Could you imagine HabStat with the gold ramps facing the centre of the map? And before the rocks to your own main are down that base would be super vulnerable to air harass, right? Which would also make it easy to deny gas mining there. So basically, such a semi-island gold third would be well protected initially against early-game ground attacks, but once you take out the rocks it becomes very vulnerable and on top of that opens an attacking path into your main. If two large ramps aren't enough to balance Terrans lifting off CCs and dropping mules, you can remove the high ground advantage or even invert it. You could also add more entrances, or expose the mineral line like on HabStat. So the difficult part seems to be figuring out how much protection would too much, or too little.
Hmm, yeah I was going more towards having unbuildable rocks there which are pretty easy to clean up for when "fair" races expand there after taking out the rocks from the main. Although there is definitely appeal in a true semi island so that you can drop / float / nydus in.
I like the idea of having some of the minerals vulnerable from the cliff like on Hab Stat. Still leaves zvt problematic though.
|
|
|
|
|
You should work on the textures, it looks like you have used a lot of copy&paste
@And G : With all those weird paths on your 2 maps I foresee many rally point & army movement fuck up. My poor army control is crying 
|
On May 26 2014 17:48 And G wrote:Prototype for a map with semi-island golds between the mains: ![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/standc_06fcug0.png)
Don't get me wrong And G: The upper part of ur map seems like u have put some thoughts into it, the lower part feels empty and boring. Apparently u focused too much on one half while the other got no attention at all. Just my worthless thoughts.
|
On May 26 2014 19:40 algue wrote:@And G : With all those weird paths on your 2 maps I foresee many rally point & army movement fuck up. My poor army control is crying
Skill ceiling! I said it, I win.
On a more serious note, where do you see weird paths? This all looks rather normal to me compared to maps like Habitation Station or Bel'Shir Vestige, apart maybe from the double ramps at the natural on Ohashi Ronsowth. If you could single out problematic areas that would help me a lot.
(By the way you can shift-queue rally points, in case you didn't know.)
On May 26 2014 19:50 Phaenoman wrote:
Don't get me wrong And G: The upper part of ur map seems like u have put some thoughts into it, the lower part feels empty and boring. Apparently u focused too much on one half while the other got no attention at all. Just my worthless thoughts.
I can see what you mean, and yes, I did focus on the top area more. The main design points of the bottom half were the thirds with the exposed mineral lines, the bottom-central gold base, and the general idea that army movement should be more spread out than on HabStat where like 99% of engagements occur on the top half of the map.
I'll see if I can't come up with something better but currently I'm not even sure I like the top half very much, the golds seem a little too exposed for my taste.
|
See :
+ Show Spoiler +
It's pure sadism, you are purposely trying to make people fuck up their engagements
Also, on your second map I fear that the north part of the map will be so key that no one will ever use the south of the map.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HIk0CXZ.png)
This is my first ever map designed for Starcraft 2 (or any RTS game for that matter). Looking for feedback on what I did right and wrong, and where I can improve.
Some of my own observations:
1) Maybe too many bases? Its easy to take 4 bases quickly, admittedly two are rather open to Blink/Sieges, so this maybe balances it out?
2) Bases to large, perhaps? There seems quite a bit of room in the bases, at least in the map editor.
3) Boring, not much going on in the centre of the map. Not sure what to do here, I suck at making things pretty.
Still working out how to do retexturing stuff, so all the map is the same texture at the moment.
4) Too much air space. Theres quite a bit of empty room around the back of bases, much moreso than I intended. I can shrink this within the editor though, right? Without starting a new map that is.
So, please, give me feedback. All criticism is welcome.
|
|
|
Crossroads:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aRRGSGV.jpg)
Playable bounds: 156x128
Rush distance main CC to main CC - 66 sec of worker time
Rush distance natural CC to natural CC - 45 sec of worker time
|
@mosk - the inner and outer N/S bases are quite close with the same routes in and out. The cliff base is vulnerable from the middle but that's the only difference. I would separate these a little more. Simple but effective concept otherwise.
@darques - Always use diagonal ramps unless you have a good reason not to. This is especially true for the main base so it's 1 forcefield in size. Generally try to design your main/nat as standard (look at any ladder map for example); yours is sort of confusing. You could just take away one of those middleground bases and fix the base density and natural design problem. (You'd need to reform the chokepoints to accommodate.) At that point you'd have a basic 3bases per corner type map, with horizontal spawns feeling a little hemmed in. Try adding 2-4 more bases somewhere in the middle to bridge the corners of the map, and make the terrain between the corners more interesting than just flat ground. Sometimes flat ground is okay but generally a successful 4p map will have some routes with tradeoffs for moving around the map. Look at Frost for an example of using some of both philosophies.
@hunterforce - Pretty successful standard-ish map. Some things to consider: the rocks in the middle make the initial attack path VERY long, and the pathing AI will have players take separate routes that are VERY far apart. This can often lead to turtley / basetradey play. The lowground 3rd base is quite far from the natural, requiring players to break rocks for their 3rd inside, or take a very risky base. Since you can place the CC and break rocks later, this is sort of alright, but it will still be difficult for zerg when they try to take a fast 3rd. Either they go inside and have an awkward cycle of units instead of drones to clear the rocks, or they have a very vulnerable base. The routes by the gold bases are quite narrow, maybe should be wider because that is an important base location that also mostly defends the lowground 3rd. You may just want to try different designs of the initial paths, not quite as long and more open near the gold base. You have tons of surface area on the main cliff for blink. Put some doodads/holes there unless you're trying to make the inbase expansion harder due to blink, and then enjoy your Heavy Rain metagame.
|
On May 24 2014 04:22 NemRaC wrote:CJ Biome 2.0 (visual update) by NemRaCAfter my map got "flamed" a bit, because it won the TLMC4, I thought I should redo the optic. I got some inspirating by a rework of the mapmaker Etcetra. Now I'm at the point that I wanted to show you guys the map and ask for some advice or tipps to make it better . I would like to know which region needs the most work , which you like the most and what i should do with the middle which is pretty boring at this point Here some more pictures of the map : AlbumEdit: also playable on [EU] [US] [KR] to check out the map by yourself
Good improvements! Although wouldn't switching the ice and the sand "biome's" placement make more sense, for the sand>grassy sand>grass transition?
There's something i've been wanting to ask for a while though, is your map inspired by this old MapJam submission:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/420293-map-jam-and-challenge-7?page=2#36
|
I noticed that the bases are a bit too close, but I have no idea what to do about it, except of course removing one of the bases. I tried creating the small cliff pods to separate the bases a bit, but it's not really effective.
Any ideas how to separate them more?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/AGHGiQR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/terrain04576jk7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/standc_adius1.png)
![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/ohashi_aqgunm.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GFwQ27t.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0N9U936.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OoaWMr5l.jpg)
