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TLMC Map Analysis

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
50 CommentsPost a Reply
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TLMC Map Analysis

Text byTL Strategy
Graphics byNaganis and shiroiusagi
June 5th, 2013 20:33 GMT


By: monk
With additional comments and feedback from Teoita, TheDwf, and Ver


      Two weeks ago, we announced the finalists of the TLMC. Since then, the TL Strategy team has been busy testing the maps, looking for potential obvious balance issues. We then relayed it back to the mapmakers who tweaked their maps accordingly.

Now, with the TLMC TLOpen fast encroaching tomorrow, we thought we'd give the participants a more in-depth overview of all the maps they'll be playing on. All the maps we present today have unique features that separates themselves from each other and from every other map in the current map pool; this makes it especially important to scout out the maps before you play on them. For those of you planning on watching, this write-up also acts as a preview as to what you can except from the games tomorrow. Finally, this analysis also serves to inform the general community, who will also have a say in the winners of our contest.

Before we being, one of the most important features of maps is the distance between natural expansions called the natural to natural distance(n2n). This numeric value is the time it takes in in-game seconds for a worker to travel from the center of a nexus in your natural to the center of a nexus in another natural; it is what most people refer to when they talk about rush distance and is a key factor in determining how well aggression will work on a given map. For reference, here are a few sample n2n distances on some well known maps:
+ Show Spoiler +
Steppes of War: 27
Antiga Shipyards-close: 42
Cloud Kingdom: 43
Whirlwind-close: 46
Belshir Vestige: 46
Antiga Shipyards-cross: 52
Daybreak: 50
Whirlwind-cross: 54


The Maps



TPW Electric Circuit
by lefix

-Spawns 1, 5, 7, 11. All spawns enabled.
-n2n distance*: 37 close, 48 cross
*Note that these distances refer to the outside "naturals", which in general will only be taken as a third.

  • This map is a remake of the popular Brood War map by the same name.
  • The front door of each main has a choke that includes a rock. There are also unkillable unbuildable plates in the choke so players cannot be walled in with just one pylon.
  • There is a lot of space in both the main and natural. This makes it hard to scout for tech and makes scans less useful. At the same time, it forces players to cover a greater area for drops.
  • The defender and attacker have similar distances to walk in order to bounce between the natural and third expansion. This makes positioning and keeping tabs on an opponent a vital part of playing the map.
  • The high ground and backdoor design can be used to bounce back and forth between bases with units like blink stalkers and reapers.
  • We've made changes to the map from the original version to weaken blink stalker all-ins against Terran, but they still remain a formidable strategy.
  • The three bases are close to each other and may seem easy to defend, but the rocks in the backdoor natural allow an attacker to easily bounce back between a player's forward natural and his backdoor natural. This makes it generally much easier to attack than to defend.
  • A possible solution is for the defender to control the area in the middle of these two attack paths. However, this opens up a lot of potential drop plays from the opponent.
  • Overall, this is a highly radical map design in many ways that could provide many different types of games than we're used to.



CruX Frost
by Semmo

-Spawns: 1, 5, 7, 11, all spawns enabled.
-n2n distance: 47 vertical, 49 horizontal, 54 cross

  • There are two watch towers on this map which control the center.
  • The unique architecture of the map allows close spawns and cross spawns to have similar rush distances.
  • All three types of spawns will provide for slightly different games and expansion patterns.
  • There are two choices for third bases and players will choose which one to take based on their race, their spawn positions and their spawn positions; both locations are viable in certain situations.
  • The third bases near the 12 and 6 o'clock positions are easily assailable from the overlooking high ground. This expansion would be a poor choice for Zergs should they spawn horizontally from the other races. However, Terran and Protoss may use it as a staging point for attacks.
  • The third base near the middle of the map opens the player to attacks and counterattacks from many directions and is especially vulnerable to air harass due to the dead space overlooking the base.
  • Both third bases are rather spread apart from the main and natural, which could open up a lot of harass and drop play.
  • We think it will be interesting to see who takes which bases and the interactions between the base placements.
  • Otherwise, this map should prove to be a solid macro map that plays quite differently than what we've come to expect from something like Whirlwind.



ESV Insidious
by Timetwister22

-Spawns: 11 and 5
-n2n distance: 50, 47 with rocks down

  • The center watch tower covers all of the shortest possible rush paths.
  • Killing the rocks doesn't decrease the rush distance by too much.
  • There are many pathways to attack and counterattack, especially once the rocks are down. This is very similar to another ESV maps, Muspelheim.
  • There is a backdoor entrance to the natural blocked by rocks. This could open up some aggressive tactics such as immortal all-ins against Terran. However, it is very hard to bounce back between the two entrances of the natural for the attacker.
  • The natural is extremely large and potentially hard to defend.
  • The distance from the natural command center to the natural choke is abnormally large, which means SCVs will have to travel further to repair bunkers.
  • The "obvious" third is surprisingly hard to defend, especially for Protoss players. We expect the base directly under the main to be taken as a third in some circumstances.
  • There actually isn't much dead space on this map; don't be fooled by the way the map preview looks.
  • There is a space shark on this map.
  • Overall, though this may look like a standard macro map, it provides a lot of subtle opportunities to be aggressive compared to most.



TPW Keru
by Meerel

-Spawns: 2 and 8
-n2n distance: 46

  • The layout is slightly reminiscent of the Brood War map, Match Point.
  • No watch towers on this map.
  • This map used to have low ground mains, but they were taken out after some testing. Nevertheless, it still has a lot of interesting and unique features to explore.
  • There are many opportunities to proxy on this map, both barracks and stargates/starports.
  • It is only possible to blink into the main via the natural ramp.
  • Neither the high ground overlooking the natural nor the plateau by the third are pathable.
  • The thirds on this map are very close to each other, but they are blocked by two sets of rocks that need to be destroyed first. With the rocks up, the rush distance is quite large between the two bases, but with them down, it's only a short walk away. Three-base pushes could prove to be very strong on this map.
  • The third base mineral lines can be harassed from the low ground, something Terrans especially will be keen to abuse.
  • There are two possible fourth bases, each with a unique layout and each posing a different challenge to defend. Either way, holding a fourth requires you to spread yourself quite thin.
  • Overall, this is another map with a lot of unique concepts, though ones that might be harder to see until you take a closer look.



TPW Khalim's Will
by Meerel

-Spawns: 2 and 8
-n2n distance*: 47
*Note that these distances refer to the outside "naturals", which in general will only be taken as a third.

  • There are two watch towers on the map, but the one near your opponent's base may not be too useful to spot incoming attacks with.
  • As with Electric Circuit, Khalim's Will features two "easy" to take expansions, one forward natural and one backdoor natural. The backdoor natural has an additional entrance that is blocked by rocks.
  • We expect players to take the backdoor natural first. Even though this natural has a backdoor, we expect it to relatively easy to be able to defend the first two bases, much more so than an Electric Circuit or a Blistering Sands. On this map, it's easier for a defender than an attacker to bounce back between the two locations. Also, in contrast to Blistering Sands, which featured a wide natural and a wide backdoor blocked by a rock, this map features a backdoor blocked by a rock and front entrance just one force field wide that also gives the defender a high-ground advantage. Finally, the rush distances on this map are much larger than on Blistering Sands. In short, it's just a lot different from Blistering Sands. It is actually easier, in some ways, to defend this base setup than a standard setup.
  • It's much easier to attack a player through the backdoor than through the front while he's on two bases. This is partially due to the wider choke and partially due to the rush distance.
  • Blink stalkers and reapers may only enter into the main or natural in easily defendable locations near the ramps/chokes in both these bases.
  • Once a player takes his third, he opens himself to more attacks, because it suddenly becomes easier for the attacker to bounce back and forth between the two potential attack paths.
  • The front "natural" is cliff-able with siege tanks, similar to on lost temple. However, keep in mind that this base will usually be taken as a third or even a fourth.
  • The air distance between the most common natural and third is much shorter than the ground distance. This means that drops, especially doom drops, can be extremely deadly and come at a moment's notice should the defender not have air control.
  • When defending against air-based harassment like medivacs and mutalisks with a ground army, taking the side bases instead of the obvious third might make for an easier defense.
  • The standard "fourth" base is close to the backdoor natural. However, at the same time, it is close to your opponent's front door natural, making it a prime target for attacks. In addition, the gases are accessible by attacks from the low ground, similar to Tal'darim Altar.
  • The more you expand, the closer you will be to your opponent.
  • Overall, this is a map that is riddled with small but interesting new concepts.



TPW Koprulu
by monitor

-Note: There were some last minute changes to the map and unfortunately, the aesthetics are not perfect. There will be updates to the aesthetics in the near future.

-Spawns:1, 5, 7, 11, cross only
-n2n distance: 42 close, 45 cross

  • No watch towers on this map.
  • This map features double sided bases, which are opened once the minerals are mined out. This is reminiscent of the popular Brood War map, Outsider.
  • This map features rotational symmetry, which means there are two scenarios for close position spawns.
  • You can warp units across the mineral lines.
  • Before you ask, you cannot trick probes through the mineral lines. Believe us, we tried.
  • The backdoor expansions are extremely easy to take and defend from frontal attacks. But at the same time, the mineral lines at these locations are easily harass-able.
  • The backdoor expansions are relatively far away from the mains, which makes harass even more dangerous.
  • This opens up unique tactics like stalker harass or roach harass, but also strengthens general harass on these mineral lines.
  • Strategically placed long range units (tanks, colossi) or air units are possible defenses against such harass.
  • It can be difficult, especially as Zerg, to defend doom drops on these mineral lines, as the melee ground defense of zerglings and banelings won't be able to jump across mineral lines. We expect mutalisks to be mandatory on this map.
  • In addition to the backdoor natural, you can choose to take your fourth with a blocked mineral line (which opens you up to even more harass) or on the low ground(which opens you up to more frontal attacks).
  • In general, frontal attacks should be easily defend-able on this map, and we expect the game to revolve more around harass and defending harass.
  • We think it'll be interesting to see the choices of expansions each player and race will make on this map.



ESV Ravage
by IronmanSC

-Spawns: 4 and 10
-n2n distance: 48, 44 with rocks down

  • This map is made by the creator of Ohana, so it should not surprise you that it shares many of the same features.
  • One of the biggest attractions on this map is the two sets of rocks in the middle. When the rocks are torn down, the natural to natural distance goes down from 48 to 44, which is quite significant especially with bio pushes in TvZ. Killing the rocks also allows for access to the middle watch tower.
  • The center watch tower is actually fairly useless until the rocks are down, because nothing will pass through that area until then.
  • Depot walls are hard to make at the third in TvZ on this map. Terrans will have to take additional care to defend their thirds.
  • For most match-ups, the first four bases taken will be the back four on either side of the map. However, Terrans many choose to take a more forward fourth in order to have a better staging ground to pressure the other races with.
  • The side fourth base has a large high ground ramp overlooking it, which will allow attacks to be slightly more effective.
  • There is a space shark on this map.
  • Overall, we expect this map to play out like a more dynamic version of Ohana or Belshir Vestige.



TPW Strangewood Mire
by Samro225am

-Spawns: 1, 5, 7, 11. All spawns enabled
-n2n distance: 39 vertical (42 rocks down), 42 horizontal (48 rocks down), 53 cross

-Note: In case the close spawn rush distances prove to be too short, there is already a slightly bigger version of this map that is already made.

  • No watch towers on this map.
  • There are four sets of collapsible rocks that extend the rush distance of the map when they are down. The sets on the left/right of the map increases the rush distance by 3 seconds and the sets on the top/bottom of the map increases this distance by 6 seconds.
  • These rocks may be used to increase the rush distance slightly and increase the safety of your bases. However, they require that you have map control for you to kill them. That is, you probably won't be killing them with zerglings when hellions are on the field. They also have the standard 500 HP, which means units such as hellions will take quite a while to drop them down.
  • One of the biggest concepts of this map is that the three spawning positions provide three completely different types of games.
  • Vertical spawns have the shortest rush distance. Combined with the fact that there are no watch towers to alerts defenders of incoming attacks and that the chokes in the naturals are far from the natural command center/hatchery/nexus, we except vertical positions to play out very aggressively.
  • Horizontal spawns are right in the middle, with a medium rush distance. In addition, killing the rocks between horizontal spawns causes the rush distance to increase dramatically.
  • Cross spawns will play very similarly to a Whirlwind, except with slightly more dynamic bases and no middle watch tower.
  • The 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock expansions are easy to take and hold.
  • The four bases near 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock are slightly harder to take and are vulnerable to high ground attacks and sieges.
  • There are two sets of rocks near the top middle and bottom middle of the map. When destroyed, they open the map up a lot more.
  • Overall, though this may look like a macro map at first, it's actually three different maps in one, each allowing for a different level of aggression.



DF Yeonsu
by etcetera

-Spawns: 2 and 8
-n2n disatnce: 41

  • The map features one of the shorter rush distance in the map pool, but this should be mitigated by the two watch towers which can easily spot incoming attacks. In this way, it is a very similar setup to Cloud Kingdom.
  • Players can choose to take an easily defendable third or a less easily defendable but aggressive one. Either way, both expansions are fairly safe due to the layout of each expansion despite the short rush distances.
  • Players can also choose to take an island as one of their expansions. Unlike the islands on Metropolis, these expansions are much more easily accessible. This island is also not blocked by any rocks or creep tumors. We realize this feature may favor Terran a bit, but hope the other races can adapt with a slightly bigger focus on air and drop play.
  • Overall, this may look like a fairly standard map, but at a closer look, it has many less-than-standard layouts and pathings.

Now What?


Now that we've taken a better look at the finalists, we want to hear what you think about them. Which is your favorite and how do you think each map will play out? Are there any potential problems you can see with any of the map? Or better yet, play on the maps and then tell us what you think. Also, don't forget to sign up for the TLOpen, which features a prize pool of $200.

All of these maps can be found by searching for 'TLMC' in the custom games section (not the arcade!)


Team Liquid Map Contest TL Open Details


Registration for the tournament is now open.
Check-in begins on Thursday, Jun 06 4:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
Tournament begins on Thursday, Jun 06 5:15pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
Casters can PM Heyoka if they wish to cast the tournament's early rounds.

View details and register here.

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Flossy
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States870 Posts
June 06 2013 01:22 GMT
#2
Double sided bases seem pretty interesting. I also want to see how no towers pans out.
(Koprulu btw)
etternaonline.com
renlynn
Profile Joined May 2011
United States276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 01:40:00
June 06 2013 01:38 GMT
#3
why'd he have to name it koprulu -_-

edit: oh hey ironman came back? or did he never leave and I just remembered wrong?
Trasko
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden983 Posts
June 06 2013 01:53 GMT
#4
CruX Frost looks so nice!
Jaedong <3
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
June 06 2013 02:14 GMT
#5
On June 06 2013 10:38 renlynn wrote:
why'd he have to name it koprulu -_-

edit: oh hey ironman came back? or did he never leave and I just remembered wrong?


I think you're thinking of Superouman. monitor also took a short break due to burning out.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
June 06 2013 02:18 GMT
#6
thx for taking all this time to test and write this
SDMF
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 06 2013 02:19 GMT
#7
I'm still patiently waiting for feedback on the maps that didn't make it but I'm in no hurry.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
June 06 2013 02:26 GMT
#8
On June 06 2013 11:14 Qwyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2013 10:38 renlynn wrote:
why'd he have to name it koprulu -_-

edit: oh hey ironman came back? or did he never leave and I just remembered wrong?


I think you're thinking of Superouman. monitor also took a short break due to burning out.

I saw monitor's name on there and I was really surprised. I hadn't seen any maps by him in a looooong time. Guess he's finally ready to be back, and I'm happy he is, he makes great maps .
User was warned for too many mimes.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 03:05:10
June 06 2013 03:04 GMT
#9
There is a space shark on this map.


I like this article, keeps the priorities in order, A+!

Edit: Mapmakers suck at retiring, assume every retired mapmaker will make a glorious return eventually. Blame ProdiG for that one.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
kochanfe
Profile Joined July 2011
Micronesia1338 Posts
June 06 2013 03:14 GMT
#10
Pretty sick! Lovin' the TL strategy!
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." - Lao Tzu
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
June 06 2013 03:33 GMT
#11
Yeonsu's aesthetics remind me so much of wc3 maps, i might just have to pick it :D
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
June 06 2013 03:36 GMT
#12
I know it sounds weird, but if every TL article could be presented in the form of WCS's new eESPN Sportscenter type newscast I could put it in front of huge media execs without risking my career. Which would be awesome.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
June 06 2013 03:37 GMT
#13
Don't get me wrong, the writeups are amazing as always, I just had a few interesting meetings yesterday.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
June 06 2013 03:53 GMT
#14
These maps all look great, I can't wait for the tournament!
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1683 Posts
June 06 2013 04:22 GMT
#15
Strangewood Mire and Frost are the only good maps, if one of these don't win idk what the heck is wrong with the judges
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
SecondHand
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States329 Posts
June 06 2013 04:33 GMT
#16
I really like Yeonsu
Ladder more, win less
looknohands119
Profile Joined March 2010
United States815 Posts
June 06 2013 04:40 GMT
#17
Hmmm... Having so many paths into either the main or natural would encourage a LOT of 1-base play I would think. Also, clearly what these maps require are more destructable rocks. They simply do not have enough.
"The kingdom of the heavens is buried treasure. Would you sell yourself to buy the one you've found?" - Jon Foreman ('Your Love Is Strong' - Spring EP)
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
June 06 2013 05:05 GMT
#18
ESV Ravage,CruX Frost! <3
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
June 06 2013 05:12 GMT
#19
Where I would love it if my map made ladder, I must say that Frost really NEEDS to make ladder, because we depserately need a good 4p mirror map. Down with the bad 4p mirror maps like Star Station, in with Frost.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
CrEiK
Profile Joined July 2012
Switzerland4 Posts
June 06 2013 05:18 GMT
#20
Tell me when protoss will be able to take a third.....
iTzSnypah
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1738 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 05:51:46
June 06 2013 05:50 GMT
#21
I love the aesthetics of Yeonsu, however the 2 watch towers cover every ground attack path which immediately makes it terrible. You compare it to Cloud Kingdom yet CK had attack paths that weren't covered by a watch tower. With Yeonsu there are NO enemy bases you can attack by ground without traveling through watch tower vision. I'm going to call it now this map will be extremely Zerg favored.

Now hopefully by Friday tournament statistics will be out to support (or debunk) my claim.
Team Liquid needs more Terrans.
althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
June 06 2013 06:17 GMT
#22
On June 06 2013 14:18 CrEiK wrote:
Tell me when protoss will be able to take a third.....

In the spring (which is the northern hemisphere's Fall).
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
June 06 2013 06:44 GMT
#23
I disagree with a couple of the map comparisons (insidious and keru compared to muspelheim and match point is enough of a reach that just leaving those comparisons out would have probably been better), and some of the points made in the descriptions, but pretty decent write-up overall.

p.s. - is putting space sharks on maps actually funny to anyone anymore? I thought it was funny like once or twice. IMO find a new mapping meme. The sharks just look dumb / ruin the continuity of the aesthetic themes @ this point
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
June 06 2013 07:26 GMT
#24
Isn't the space shark ESV's signature? I don't mind it.
PredY
Profile Joined September 2009
Czech Republic1731 Posts
June 06 2013 07:47 GMT
#25
why no 3p maps?
http://www.twitch.tv/czelpredy
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
June 06 2013 08:08 GMT
#26
Space shark rules. Don't fuck with it.

My money is on Frost winning it all. Ravage and Electric Circuit seem pretty sexy as well.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
June 06 2013 08:27 GMT
#27
me and my friend had a really fun time playing on DF Yeonsu :D

the third bases are very refreshing
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
June 06 2013 09:12 GMT
#28
On June 06 2013 15:44 Fatam wrote:
I disagree with a couple of the map comparisons (insidious and keru compared to muspelheim and match point is enough of a reach that just leaving those comparisons out would have probably been better), and some of the points made in the descriptions, but pretty decent write-up overall.

p.s. - is putting space sharks on maps actually funny to anyone anymore? I thought it was funny like once or twice. IMO find a new mapping meme. The sharks just look dumb / ruin the continuity of the aesthetic themes @ this point


1) The spaceshark is awesome. 2) It's how we at ESV sign our maps. We're not really supposed to put logos or names of real brands, companies, or organizations on a map. So instead we just used a spaceshark. Nowadays though, it seems Blizzard doesn't really mind all the logos on the maps with tournaments, such as GSL, using them. Yet, the spaceshark has become a recognizable and traditional means for us at ESV to sign our maps, so we've kept it around.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
June 06 2013 10:05 GMT
#29
I think I have to vote is for DF Yeonsu
Kuzmorgo
Profile Joined May 2009
Hungary1058 Posts
June 06 2013 10:12 GMT
#30
I love how it's highlighted if a map has a space shark on it . I wonder how strong blink stalkers will be on Koprulu. In BW Outsider you could only trick a few units into your opponents base, here you can blink your whole army. And it is also much easier i would imagine, than blinking into a high-ground main base. Keru should play out interestingly, and Khalim's Will looks beautiful with all the doodads. I also love how the third base is a matter of choice.
Overall very exciting maps!
"No, whine not! Play, or play not! There is no whine."
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 06 2013 10:43 GMT
#31
Nice write-up, and some really interesting looking maps. It'll be fun watching the pros wrestle with some of the unique aspects ^^
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
MavivaM
Profile Joined November 2011
1535 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 10:57:53
June 06 2013 10:57 GMT
#32
Personally I think that Khalim's Will is a great and really interesting map.
Edit: not that the others aren't ofc! They are awesome.
It's just that Khalim somehow sticks out
Your Opinion has been counted. Only 3 more Opinions needed for a reddit thread.
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 11:43:21
June 06 2013 11:40 GMT
#33
On June 06 2013 16:47 PredY wrote:
why no 3p maps?


3p maps are A LOT of extra work. Not only are they technically much harder to make (no copy paste you could use) but also resulting from that they are much less explored in SC2.
Basically no top level mapmaker chose to make a 3p map. And unless you give them extra incentive to do so like saying the TLMC maps will go to ladder for sure and 3p maps have higher chance to be picked for example, you won't see many people put in the extra work.

edit: That said I often thought about things I would do in a 4p rotational but that would work out much better in a 3p map, so I hope in the future we see more 3p maps.
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Jedclark
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom903 Posts
June 06 2013 12:21 GMT
#34
Koprulu looks like a really well-designed map. Can't wait to see the TL Open games played on it.
"They make it so scrubnubs can PM me. They make it so I can't ignore scrubnubs!" - "I'm gonna show you how great I am." MKP fan since GSL Open Season 2 #hipsternerd
LoveTool
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden143 Posts
June 06 2013 12:29 GMT
#35
Really like the improvements of Ravage. I have played most of the others, all are really cool.

Except Koprulu, which looks very anti-zerg. Especially ZvT looks like a complete nightmare.

The ground rush distance between nat and third is long and both are wide open to harass. The ground distance between the fourth and the third just below it it insanely long. Also, there is no fast access ramp between the high ground fourth down to outside of the dbl sided third, so ling defense vs drops on that base is impossible even when on 4 bases (muta only defense vs 2/2+ marines is a recipie for giving games away). This feature alone should have been a red flag. A simple mid game push for the fourth combined with a dbl drop at the third will be ridiculously strong. Taking both dbl sided bases is even more impossible to hold because of the larger distance and same problems.

To make things even worse, the main/nat area is so easily defendable. One tank on the high ground cliff overlooking nat choke shuts down all-ins with slow roaches/banes and multiple tanks the same with later timings. Timing attacks can't even get to the (PFed) third behind the minerals either, so you are forced to attack through that choke. Once terran gets on three bases it will require hive tech to attack, something zerg will likely never get on this map since it requires at least 8 gasses/4bases.

So this is a map where zergs only choice is .... well, maybe to go very heavy muta (which is weak in HotS even when not forced into it)? It is also expensive on gas which further weakens hive tech late game. No, I can't think of a ZvT strategy that would work well.

TLDR; This map needs major balance changes for ZvT.
Gorribal
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Canada186 Posts
June 06 2013 12:38 GMT
#36
Khalim's Will I get that reference! The map itself looks great.
Also does anyone else think Electric Circuit looks like that one map we had in the very beginning of SC2? The tileset was like space or something and there was like debris around the third. It looks similar to that one to me.
"PartinG keeps touching us and groping us (laughs)." - Rain
Naganis
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Italy125 Posts
June 06 2013 13:16 GMT
#37
Great article. Now, Gogo TL Open!
| Grubby Official Graphic Designer | TL Strategy Graphic Designer | ESL Graphic Designer |
FragQuenz
Profile Joined May 2013
Germany21 Posts
June 06 2013 13:24 GMT
#38
raelly nice maps so far
What keeps me going is goals - Muhammad Ali
Serek
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom459 Posts
June 06 2013 13:56 GMT
#39
Great write-up, and I've learnt a lot about maps than otherwise I wouldn't have known, but some proofreading would be nice.
x2fst
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
1272 Posts
June 06 2013 14:19 GMT
#40
what's a space shark?
muda, is a crime for me to wear a shirt, cos I is so good lookin
Tosster
Profile Joined August 2011
Poland299 Posts
June 06 2013 14:50 GMT
#41
Electric Circuit is really awesome, but i hate idea of weakening blink surface's when drops possibilities are the same as before. Also Khalim's Will will be a nightmare in PvT t.t
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1332 Posts
June 06 2013 14:57 GMT
#42
Reading about all the possibilities is intoxicating.

I can't wait to see a game played on TPW Koprulu!!!
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
June 06 2013 15:53 GMT
#43
Khalim's will is really starting to grow on me.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
Redrot
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States446 Posts
June 06 2013 19:22 GMT
#44
Ah I love Khalim's will and Yeonsu. Of all of them (excluding Korprulu), they are the most interesting ones to me.
I root for CJ because their fb posts are hilarious
Scarx
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany49 Posts
June 06 2013 20:40 GMT
#45
Where can i watch the Semi-Finals and Finals?
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
June 06 2013 20:42 GMT
#46
They'll be streamed just like the other matches.
Moderator
Scarx
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany49 Posts
June 06 2013 20:47 GMT
#47
Okay, but on which stream?
IronManSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2119 Posts
June 06 2013 20:56 GMT
#48
On June 07 2013 05:47 Scarx wrote:
Okay, but on which stream?


Just do what I do: keep the streams open in separate tabs and see which ones stay on/announce the semi-finals and finals.
SC2 Mapmaker || twitter: @ironmansc || Ohana & Mech Depot || 3x TLMC finalist || www.twitch.tv/sc2mapstream
Scarx
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany49 Posts
June 06 2013 20:59 GMT
#49
Do you mean the player streams?
IronManSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2119 Posts
June 06 2013 21:00 GMT
#50
On June 07 2013 05:59 Scarx wrote:
Do you mean the player streams?


The ones in the top right of TL under 'Featured on Air"
SC2 Mapmaker || twitter: @ironmansc || Ohana & Mech Depot || 3x TLMC finalist || www.twitch.tv/sc2mapstream
Scarx
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany49 Posts
June 06 2013 21:02 GMT
#51
okay, thank you!
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