From Saturday, Feb 09 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) To Sunday, Feb 10 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Rules: [*]All participants send one topic to the admin via PM, e.g. 'rocks' and 'low main'. Combine the two randomly selected topics (tba) in one map. Post your map overview and relevant details in this thread and have your map uploaded to EU/NA within the next 24 hours. Poll decides on winner with participants having one additional vote.
Winner is determined Tuesday, Feb 12 4:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Poll: What map is best in combining the two topics?
eTcetRa - Unearthed (12)
29%
NewSunshine - Viridian Valley (11)
26%
Archvil3 - Lunar Jam (10)
24%
Gfire - Delusion (3)
7%
Ruinsteel - Spire Island (2)
5%
Coppoermantis - Tazal (1)
2%
moskonia - Ruin Mountain (1)
2%
The_Templar - What the Sphinx (1)
2%
HypertonicHydroponic - Seedy Underbelly (1)
2%
42 total votes
Your vote: What map is best in combining the two topics?
(Vote): Archvil3 - Lunar Jam (Vote): NewSunshine - Viridian Valley (Vote): Gfire - Delusion (Vote): Coppoermantis - Tazal (Vote): moskonia - Ruin Mountain (Vote): Ruinsteel - Spire Island (Vote): The_Templar - What the Sphinx (Vote): HypertonicHydroponic - Seedy Underbelly (Vote): eTcetRa - Unearthed
Note
Make sure to place your vote in the public poll. Participants of the event can place an additional vote by sending a private message to RFDaemoniac containing the author and map name that their additional vote goes to.
Process Send your idea for an interesting topic to the event's administrator via a private message to RFDaemoniac. Two topics are randomly selected using randomizer.org at the start of the event, and then immediately made official. This way, no "cheating" can occur, and the administrator can technically participate as well.
Make sure you read the How does it work? section as well and feel free to ask additional questions in this thread.
What is the Map Jam & Challenge? The Map Jam & Challenge is a format by and for the community. The Map Jam & Challenge is a regular map making competition. The Map Jam & Challenge wants you to be creative and quick. The Map Jam & Challenge provokes thinking outside the box.
This is a format developed collaboratively by Samro and Scorp, and was motivated by MotM, CSL Map Jam and the Map Making Challenge.
Why do this? It is all about challenging your fellow map makers with some strange idea and together do a 24h map making jam that will produce innovative, fun and crazy maps. From this format ideas may emerge that can be implemented to competitive maps - or maybe not. There is nothing to win like beta keys, sorry for that. I have no give aways, no tshirts. Also I do not own this format. This is an idea that i hope can be run by the community itself, without judges, organization, etc.
I know many will appreciate this. Here it is all about making maps. These may or may not be played. This is not the biggest point. We are looking for new ideas in maps and for new ways to make maps.
How does it work?
Runs monthly.
24 hours to allow all timezones a few hours. Is held in the weekend to allow the most people to participate.
All participants send one topic to the admin via PM, e.g. 'rocks' and 'low main'.
By a randomized process two topics are selected among all entries and made public to start the Map Jam & Challenge. This aspects helps to have no 'cheating' like preparing a map to give yourself more time.
Within the 24 hours participants post the overview in this thread and upload their map to EU/NA (ask your fellow map makers at EU/NA)
Public Vote decides on the winning map. Map makers who think they have the edge in evaluating how good a map is, can message the admin with their choice to have a double-vote.
Win = Fun & Fame
Map Jam & Challenge #4 The Map Jam & Challenge starts Saturday, February 9th, 10:00EST 15:00GMT and runs 24 hours. Topics need to be send to RFDaemoniac via PM until one hour before the challenge starts. This gives the admin one hour to randomly select the double-topic. Via PM we will keep all ideas secret and fresh for the next round maybe and the double-topic is quite a surprise for everyone.
Topics will be announced in this thread.
The previous events were administrated by Scorp and Samro. In future events, other community members may administrate as well.
I'll be around this weekend, now if I can actually get off playing other video games to load up the sc2 editor to actually compete is another story. x_x
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the topic this week is not 5player maps...(although maybe igrok will come out of retirement and win lol)
On February 08 2013 04:35 ScorpSCII wrote: Unfortunately won't be able to participate, but it's a real pleasure to see other community members picking this up. Wish you all good luck!
exactly this! thanks for picking this up and i hope for many participants and an interesting topic. i am on vacation and cannot compete but i wish you al a lot of fun!
The one weekend I'm going out of town... still submitting something this time. :| edit: took a while to type out and make more concise but I sent something.
On February 08 2013 05:47 RFDaemoniac wrote: Haha, I was thinking we should release all the random themes after the tournament is over, for inspiration!
darn it, didn't see this until after I sent mine. -_-
On February 08 2013 04:41 SidianTheBard wrote: I'll be around this weekend, now if I can actually get off playing other video games to load up the sc2 editor to actually compete is another story. x_x
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the topic this week is not 5player maps...(although maybe igrok will come out of retirement and win lol)
On February 08 2013 04:41 SidianTheBard wrote: I'll be around this weekend, now if I can actually get off playing other video games to load up the sc2 editor to actually compete is another story. x_x
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the topic this week is not 5player maps...(although maybe igrok will come out of retirement and win lol)
I cannot participate this time either -- but now I am thinking of ways to do 5 player maps!
I always seem to start a map and never finish it because I hate texturing, but I have no problems finishing these xD. Definitely going to participate, as long as it isn't another 3-player map...that topic kicked my ass last time!
On February 09 2013 09:41 Ruinsteel wrote: I always seem to start a map and never finish it because I hate texturing, but I have no problems finishing these xD. Definitely going to participate, as long as it isn't another 3-player map...that topic kicked my ass last time!
Okay, the topics are announced! from eTcetRa: Bounds less than 130x130 (or equivalent). from RFDaemoniac (I know... fishy, ain't it?, now I really hope I'll find time): Forward high ground.
I think this is an awesome set that will create realistically competitive maps while still pushing the boundaries. I'll also update the op
I was asked to clarify what I meant by forward high ground.
I would like to primarily refer to a post by Barrin on considering creating a high ground mechanic, but more importantly that there are alternatives, namely forward chokes and liberal use of high ground.
The high ground in the natural of Scrap Station used to make for an interesting alternative angle for a push. + Show Spoiler +
Here the center high ground requires you to attack up into it (map of mine from a few months ago) + Show Spoiler +
If you want a more literal definition, the terrain must not be V shaped in it's high ground levels, with the highest in the main and proceeding only downwards to the middle. Even better is when these high ground pods or positions are accessible from the enemy's side.
Yes, 130x130 is playable The main could be the highest, and the natural can be lower than the main, but at some point before crossing the halfway of the map you should have to start going uphill. Crossfire does this well, too + Show Spoiler +
EDIT: From Barrin's thread, this is one of his maps that has a particularly strong use of it + Show Spoiler +
On February 10 2013 01:27 RFDaemoniac wrote: Yes, 130x130 is playable The main could be the highest, and the natural can be lower than the main, but at some point before crossing the halfway of the map you should have to start going uphill. Crossfire does this well, too + Show Spoiler +
EDIT: From Barrin's thread, this is one of his maps that has a particularly strong use of it + Show Spoiler +
I see... Crossfire is very fitting for these terms so I think we will see at least some remakes of that map here.
IDK for sure whether it's published quite yet... Not sure since the global play and everything. I think it might only be on hots beta but not wol yet. I'll try to get it up to at least NA.
I can't upload from the HotS editor for some reason, tells me that there's a game client version mismatch with the selected region. If I can get it working I'll put it up.
On February 10 2013 05:07 wrl wrote: 130x130 isn't even that small.
I know! My suggestion was 120x120, but you know how random is. Basically these maps will all be completely viable for competitive use. Which is kind of interesting too.
This map is still within bounds, but its not 130x130, its 100x160. I used some cool ideas such as an in-base expansion and a gold base, but these bases have their back to a space which can be used for harass, I think it should turn out fine.
In a way this map reminds me of Jungle Basin, because of the in-base expo and the strong middle, but I think it should play out much better due to the many attack paths and the possible expansions. Also there is a relatively small choke in the middle, so it should be possible for a stalemate at the middle while both try to somehow harass while maintaining enough force to defend their own gold base.
Also, there are a few high ground pods that can be dropped on, they are in the middle by the gold, and near the rocks by the 3rd. These pods should allow for some creative play to be done here to deny / punish greedy expanding. We'll see ^^
This is a really cool set of rules this time around. I am going to try and submit something if i can find time maybe later tonight. Crevasse is another example of forward high ground; I miss that map.
Spire Island Uploaded on NA 126x126 playable bounds Edit: Updated the center of the map to be more interesting, see spoiler tag for previous version. + Show Spoiler +
really tiring day and i'm feeling pretty uninspired right now, so probably not going to do anything. A lot of the submissions look good so far so I would have my work cut out for me anyway! GL
On February 10 2013 05:07 wrl wrote: 130x130 isn't even that small.
I know! My suggestion was 120x120, but you know how random is. Basically these maps will all be completely viable for competitive use. Which is kind of interesting too.
Mine was roughly the same. I'm about to release a totally playable 120x116.
Edit: I like the shape of spire island, but it is unplayable due to how close the natural ramps are.
Well, the measure distance tool says its about 75, which is the same with Cloud Kingdom, so I wouldn't think it's too bad. But, I haven't actually tested the map, so it's very much possible that it doesn't play out well. Cloud Kingdom is also set up in a fairly different way, and I'm not sure how accurate the measure distance tool is.
Still had fun doing this so it's not a big deal, plus I could always stretch it or make changes after the contest .
On February 10 2013 14:10 Ruinsteel wrote: Well, the measure distance tool says its about 75, which is the same with Cloud Kingdom, so I wouldn't think it's too bad. But, I haven't actually tested the map, so it's very much possible that it doesn't play out well. Cloud Kingdom is also set up in a fairly different way, and I'm not sure how accurate the measure distance tool is.
Still had fun doing this so it's not a big deal, plus I could always stretch it or make changes after the contest .
The difference is that you don't have to take the natural ramp on CK, you can walk over to the third instead. It would just be extremely difficult to take any additional bases on your map. That said, the only reason I'm commenting on it is because I like the idea.
Name: Seedy Underbelly Uploaded on NA Playable Bounds: 100x100
Dual ramped low ground mains; cannot be fully walled from top of ramps; cannot be fully walled from bottom of external ramps; super narrow passages allow largest unit pathing. Cramped, simple, elegant, rediculous. Cheese away my friends, cheese away...
On February 10 2013 14:10 Ruinsteel wrote: Well, the measure distance tool says its about 75, which is the same with Cloud Kingdom, so I wouldn't think it's too bad. But, I haven't actually tested the map, so it's very much possible that it doesn't play out well. Cloud Kingdom is also set up in a fairly different way, and I'm not sure how accurate the measure distance tool is.
Still had fun doing this so it's not a big deal, plus I could always stretch it or make changes after the contest .
The difference is that you don't have to take the natural ramp on CK, you can walk over to the third instead. It would just be extremely difficult to take any additional bases on your map. That said, the only reason I'm commenting on it is because I like the idea.
That's a good point! I'm considering revising it a little bit because I am pretty happy with the layout. Not sure exactly what I want to do with it yet, but will probably post any changed in the WIP thread ^_^.
The voting will close on Tuesday, at 11:00am EST, at which point a winner will be announced. I don't know eTcetRa's map's size... hopefully he'll enlighten us!
HypertonicHydroponic, as gimpy and broken as your map is, the tightness of the middle, having to go up hill, while still being able to get a surround, I find really interesting.
On February 11 2013 10:27 The_Templar wrote: Really? Not one person is going to vote for my map?
Join the club.
Yay! You guys got your pity vote, too! Moving up to a club with real status -- so exciting!
On February 11 2013 11:57 RFDaemoniac wrote: HypertonicHydroponic, as gimpy and broken as your map is, the tightness of the middle, having to go up hill, while still being able to get a surround, I find really interesting.
And I find your broken and gimpy compliment quite interesting, too! XD Anything to inspire a fellow mapper. tee hee
In Unearthed I really like the main/nat/third and the middle part(not the towers tho) but I think the sides are quite weak and need some rework.
Viridian Valley again I love the main/nat/third and I like the base behind the main as well. However the middle part is quite mediocre and there is clearly one base too many as the two full bases in the corner are basically defendable in the same way and right next to each other. I'd love to see the things around the main reused but not the rest.
I think Delusion is the map I like the most in its current state, it has the strong cliff overlooking the third and the path between nat and third which requires rather offensive defending. Also when taking more than three bases you best take position on the highground quite offensively and the highground is really open for interesting battles. Also harrassing the fourths with small armies through cliffing or drops is encouraged.
Grats to the winners! My personal top three I think are the same, but Unearthed ez #1, then Lunar Jam, then Viridian Valley.
I'll throw a few quick notes out there since I know people like feedback (maybe not from me, XD):
Lunar Jam -- Strong Middle high ground, like the feel of the way this will play, very good interpretation of the restriction.
Viridian Valley -- Weak middle high ground, while it's a pivot point on the map most of the map is middle ground, meaning it's essentially flat; really though, I think this can be pretty easily fixed by raising the middle bar another level and doubleing the ramps down to the two low ground no-man's-land areas, and having a ramp down to the half fifths, that would maybe jump this up to #2 or maybe even #1 in my estimation.
Delusion -- Too strong middle high ground, not enough play around option paths, even though the middle is large and could theoretically be fought over, it seems like you might be able to just set up a seige line (terran or toss) and hold that from the forward ramp in front of the natural and deny any 3rd base that is not ferried to by drop.
TazalOk -- middle high ground I think is okay, maybe decent as far as position play and caputuring the theme, the map just doesn't strike me though... =/
Ruin Mountain -- Interesting length could be made into something more interesting, middle high ground seems fairly inconsequential as far as its intent to be a pivot point of the map, it seems fairly easy to get a split map situation without too much back and forth play.
Spire Island -- Weak middle high ground, decent side routes, like my opinion for the current veridian valley the middle high ground area seems too weak as a point of control, in once sense it is stronger because it is more isolated, and in another it is weaker because it is so easy to go around it, don't get me wrong, I think it is a good map, maybe #4 on my personal list, I just feel it is a little weak toward the theme.
What the Sphinx -- Misinterpretation of forward high ground, interesting map otherwise.
Seedy Underbelly -- should inspire some very interesting, unorthodox cheese play, looolz... (really though I'd like to know where my vote came from XD, while perhaps not competitve, I think it would turn out to be a very fun map, so whoever voted for it, let's go play XD)
Unearthed -- awesome forward middle, and side routes, encourages planning and positional play, I really like the way the little pathways, side routes and forward high ground pods all interact with each other, very cool, one of my favorite 2p maps (I tend to like >2p maps in general).
I will be honest, I liked Unearthed the most, I feel the execution of forward high ground in particular should have been stronger on my map, and I agree with Ragoo's point about the base count. These are things that happen to a map when they're made, relatively speaking, in a minute. I could probably take what I've made and turn it into a further polished creation, but that would get in the way of my other forthcoming projects
I'm perfectly happy to forget about the map as quickly as it was made, since the point of it was for fun, and keep these things in mind when working on future maps.
some discssion about unearthed ... simply sharing what was said in the TPW chat on skype. I choose to think arch won't care if I quote.
http://i.imgur.com/nMLiUFa.jpg this is why i think unearthed is such a terrible map. If you look at the red lines they seperate the center so much that moving out to take a positiion puts you in a bad position. You are never in a position to intercept counterattacks and cannot reinforce any of your bases from the center so moving out is really really bad. Looking at the yellow line you have the defensive path required to defend FOUR bases. Basicly you are greatly encouraged to not move out and at same time encouraged to sit back home and turtle up on 4 bases. Any move out that isnt a commited attack puts you off much worse then if you just turtle at home. The green line is the path to defend 5 bases. At the very edge of the map furthest from the oponent. Thats how you defend 5 bases. Overall I find the layout to be one of the most borring I have ever seen so I am slightly didappointed that the map making community may choose it as the winner of the contest
I'm not sure I agree on the yellow line. you'd want to control the area with the rocks when you have a third and then the middle plateau when you have a 4th and 5th. While doing so you're very vulnerable to air, plus atks via the other two atk paths.
I do get where you're coming from, though. In the cases when you only need to move a deathball close to the CC postion to save a base ... your yellow-line theory applies. I hope the three middle lanes so far from one another promotes splitting deathballs, and static defense ... unless the yellow line theory is right and any game without air will be too static.
I'm sceptical to nats on higher ground, although I think players could learn to cope with it. It promotes drops and early warp-ins .. which is booth good and bad I guess. I'd still put the nat inside the main as one big base.
I don't think unearthed is as bad as that image from the TPW chat would say. Adding a small path from the rocked forward expansion to the other small path in the middle would make it easier to move out, give an additional attack path, and and make horizontal movement through the middle much easier, while still keeping it choked and giving an advantage to a high ground flank.
I'm also encouraged to start using the double ramp down from the main with a set of rocks on it, for pretty much every map. Allows for safe enough very early game, but allows for pressure to ramp up very quickly ~7-8 minutes.
Overall I find the layout to be one of the most borring I have ever seen so I am slightly didappointed that the map making community may choose it as the winner of the contest
Well, its overview is really pretty (the metal pods look especially great) which goes a really, really long way with most people. Also it has interesting little paths so if you don't stop and actually think about how the layout would play out, you might think it is a 10/10 map.
I personally think the map has some potential, it just needs some tweaks to help its interconnectivity. Right now you have 3 long lanes across the map with no good way to switch lanes if you need to. So you have to gamble everything and fully commit to an attack, or turtle.
p.s. there's also a good amount of unused space.. which you don't necessarily have to use, but it could help to fix some of the problems.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8hXdQ7k.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/c/c7/Scrap_Station.jpg/661px-Scrap_Station.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/2/2c/Crossfire.jpg/400px-Crossfire.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GYquB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/b/b5/Crevasse.jpg)
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hopefully ill get a chance to make something up today![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/14H7cJv.jpg)
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