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OneGoal: A better SC2 [Project Hub] - Page 41

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
February 26 2013 09:49 GMT
#801
@Pumper. We have tried giving active abilities to the DT and nothing really actively improved the unit in healthy way. If you want I can tell you everything we have tried. We are trying to keep down the number of active abilities we add (We try to take away an active ability for everyone we introduce.) But yes, longevity and (BINARY) mechanics have kept them from seing as much play as they might. Currently DTs have a speed upgrade that makes them immune to slows stuns roots ect. This allows them to zip by defenses or disengage from armies that can spot them. Increasing the longevity of the unit with good unit control. The upgrade also cloaks the Dark Shrine while researching which is AWESOME.

As for the rest of you folks. Thanks for the feedback. We do read every post! Balance Patch 2 is going up on the test realm sometime this week. And we have some media in the works to show off the cool factor of our mod.

Reflection and Respect.
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
February 26 2013 14:45 GMT
#802
Wooo that's awesome, the videos you guys have put out thus far have been great!
I am terrible at this game!
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
February 26 2013 22:41 GMT
#803
ive been telling them for the longest time to just give dts double cloak. seems balanced right?


=D
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-26 23:47:18
February 26 2013 23:39 GMT
#804
Things are going to be pretty swell. Though I can see why most dev studios say "soon" TM.
Reflection and Respect.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-27 04:05:12
February 27 2013 03:43 GMT
#805
Hey all this is the preview of OneGoal's second Balance Patch. Feel free to give us direct feedback below.

Balance Patch 2
Protoss

High Templar
-Psionic Strom damage increased to 100 from 80.
-Psionic Storm DPS decreased to 16.66 from 20.
-Psionic Storm duration increased to 6 seconds from 4.

Phoenix
-Increased range from 4 to 5.
-Increased Graviton Beam range from 4 to 5.

Sentry
-Time Warp Range increased to 8 from 6.

Terran

Bunker
-Build time decreased by 5 seconds.
-Build time increased by 5 seconds.

Ghost
-EMP Reworked
Name EMP Field
Cost: 75 Energy
AoE: 2.75
Duration: 6 Seconds
Effect: All units within are have shields reduced by 100 and cannot use energy-based abilities. Leaving the area ends this effect.

Raven
-PDD now blocks Broodlings.

Widow Mine
-Drilling Claws removed
-New Upgrade: Arane Manufacturing 150/150 /100.
Effect: Reduces rearm time to 25 seconds from 40 seconds.

Zerg
Corruptor
-Health Reduced to 200 from 250.
-Base armor reduced to 1 from 2.
-Bonus damage to armor removed.
-Eggs have a 90 second life span.
-Eggs no longer cost supply.

Mutalisk
-Health regeneration reduced to .5 from 1.
Reflection and Respect.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-27 03:52:55
February 27 2013 03:45 GMT
#806
-Repost...Stupid quote button
Reflection and Respect.
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
February 27 2013 03:53 GMT
#807
im liking the change to storm. its stronger if the terran doesnt pay attention but weaker if he micros out of it. Neat.
Also, interesting idea with emp. Should create an interesting dynamic between ht and ghost now. Works thematically as well (emp knocks out shit).
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
starimk
Profile Joined December 2011
106 Posts
February 27 2013 08:02 GMT
#808
Just some logistical/rhetorical notes:
Bunker
-Build time decreased by 5 seconds.
-Build time increased by 5 seconds.

So... Which is it? :D

Ghost
-EMP Reworked
Name EMP Field
Cost: 75 Energy
AoE: 2.75
Duration: 6 Seconds
Effect: All units within are have shields reduced by 100 and cannot use energy-based abilities. Leaving the area ends this effect.

So, will Protoss units that leave the field regain lost shields?
Traceback
Profile Joined October 2010
United States469 Posts
February 27 2013 08:04 GMT
#809
Both and yes.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
February 27 2013 08:46 GMT
#810
Bunker build time remains unchanged.
Reflection and Respect.
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
February 27 2013 15:09 GMT
#811
Interesting stuff, the storm and EMP changes seem like they might lengthen the time it takes for engagements to play out and I really like that. Although it's kind of a shame to see storm drops getting nerfed by the reduced DPS.. but not much to be done about that I guess :D

Bit sad about the muta nerf but I'm guessing it was too strong being able to retain your flock so well given the muta is now core to all of zerg's air? I feel like they might have to do this in standard HotS too as muta play is so good against protoss it seems that phoenix is the only real viable counter.. which kinda limits protoss to one style of play, if you want to be generally safe you go air every game. That said I guess stalkers in Onegoal must be a lot better against mutas so I don't know how it plays out.. could even be necessary for ZvT given that mines don't hit air I don't know.

Haha, all my rambling is just theorycrafting anyway but the one thing I'm sure of is that the bunker change was the most needed and impactful part of this patch!
I am terrible at this game!
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
February 27 2013 22:43 GMT
#812
The issue is that Mutas are pretty solid in current engagements as they are, and then can turn into one of the most powerful air units in the game. It's a similar dynamic with WoL Corruptors vs air except Mutas can kill everything in large numbers. >.> Stalkers are a reasonably strong answer, but given the changes to warp gate, you have to be really careful with how you spread them, because of the optimal nature of gateway centralized production over warp gates.
Reflection and Respect.
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
February 28 2013 01:01 GMT
#813
Ha ha, yeah I can imagine a protoss dedicating himself entirely to stalker/templar to fend off a flock of 30 mutas... and then BAM, here come 30 broodlords :D
I am terrible at this game!
Saigon2246
Profile Joined October 2012
Hungary23 Posts
March 02 2013 17:18 GMT
#814
Don't you think units with very long cooldown time, but big damage boost like widow mine and swarm host are just generally bad design and should be just removed from the game? They seem very gimmicky and luck based to me instead of skill based, which should be the goal, right?
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 17:26:41
March 02 2013 17:26 GMT
#815
On March 03 2013 02:18 Saigon2246 wrote:
Don't you think units with very long cooldown time, but big damage boost like widow mine and swarm host are just generally bad design and should be just removed from the game? They seem very gimmicky and luck based to me instead of skill based, which should be the goal, right?

They both promote positional play and territory control, something sc2 sorely lacks. Could they be better implemented? For sure.
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
PlumperNickle
Profile Joined January 2013
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 18:42:55
March 02 2013 18:27 GMT
#816
@ ItWhoSpeaks I apologize if it sounded like I was trying to point the obvious problems of the DT. I was merely trying to make it clear how my suggestion was supposed to help the unit. I wasn't very obvious in my comparison and for that I am sorry. What I was trying to say (some what indirectly) was that I don't think the slow-immunity is a good mechanic since it limits the opponent's counter play options (slowing attacks) and limits the compositions available for this enemy. I mean it seems to be a more arbitrary counter rather than an addition to dynamics. I am worried that after balance is done, DTs would merely be hard counters to heavy infestor or marauder compositions. The speed is of course a much easier way to add degrees of success and longevity to the unit, my concern is that with other "speed" or "shifty" units (Stalkers, Helions, Pheonixes, etc) it doesn't give the unit its own flavorful niche. I would be quite interested in what all you've tried. Have you attempted something like a self-"Stasis" for DT's? Giving it a long cool down and making it unable to damage, be damaged, move, be moved, or be detected while in "stasis"; gives them a way to avoid damage temporarily, a way to trick/escape confrontations, and a way for skilled players to set up engagements with armies with detection in their favor. The ability having a time limit and a cool down gives it more counter play options to the opponent (they can leave units where the DT vanish to pick it off, focus fire before the ability activates, or bait it out to make the player waste it) and allowing for slowing units to still be feasible against them. The stasis being cancelled by the player at any point and then going in to cool down allows them to express their ability to properly time and manage encounters. It matches the upgrades cloaking the Dark Shrine effect. A higher beginning speed for DTs and a similar ability to this "self-stasis" may be a good alternative. I didn't want to give a problem without at least to trying to suggest a constructive solution.

EDIT: I corrected some of my deplorable grammar.
To be honest. To be helpful. That's all I want.
Saigon2246
Profile Joined October 2012
Hungary23 Posts
March 03 2013 12:05 GMT
#817
On March 03 2013 02:26 da_head wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2013 02:18 Saigon2246 wrote:
Don't you think units with very long cooldown time, but big damage boost like widow mine and swarm host are just generally bad design and should be just removed from the game? They seem very gimmicky and luck based to me instead of skill based, which should be the goal, right?

They both promote positional play and territory control, something sc2 sorely lacks. Could they be better implemented? For sure.


Well, ok, but they are so much inferior to Spider Mine and Lurker, I just don't see how this can be helped.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-03 12:18:30
March 03 2013 12:09 GMT
#818
On March 03 2013 02:18 Saigon2246 wrote:
Don't you think units with very long cooldown time, but big damage boost like widow mine and swarm host are just generally bad design and should be just removed from the game? They seem very gimmicky and luck based to me instead of skill based, which should be the goal, right?


It is an interesting question. Frontloading damage is risky due to to a potential lack of counterplay. The way that Widow Mines are currently limited vs protoss is pretty frustrating. I invest everything into this Oracle, then lose it to a single widowmine that I can't even see particularly well. That said, by lowering the damage and supply (as well as applicable targets) you can still get strong area control, which lead to more back and forth games because you are increasing the number of gradients of success and failure. The long cooldown can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the rest of the context. Longer cooldowns let the other player do potentially interesting things between "danger zones." This allows for the building of suspense which is GREAT for an esport. Imagine how much would be lost if Reaver Scarabs were instant instead of traveling to their target. Similar principle. The widow mine is VERY close to being an iconic esport unit in my opinion. It just needs a bit more counterplay.
Reflection and Respect.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
March 03 2013 12:17 GMT
#819
On March 03 2013 03:27 PlumperNickle wrote:
What I was trying to say (some what indirectly) was that I don't think the slow-immunity is a good mechanic since it limits the opponent's counter play options (slowing attacks) and limits the compositions available for this enemy. I mean it seems to be a more arbitrary counter rather than an addition to dynamics. I am worried that after balance is done, DTs would merely be hard counters to heavy infestor or marauder compositions. The speed is of course a much easier way to add degrees of success and longevity to the unit, my concern is that with other "speed" or "shifty" units (Stalkers, Helions, Pheonixes, etc) it doesn't give the unit its own flavorful niche. I would be quite interested in what all you've tried. Have you attempted something like a self-"Stasis" for DT's? Giving it a long cool down and making it unable to damage, be damaged, move, be moved, or be detected while in "stasis"; gives them a way to avoid damage temporarily, a way to trick/escape confrontations, and a way for skilled players to set up engagements with armies with detection in their favor. The ability having a time limit and a cool down gives it more counter play options to the opponent (they can leave units where the DT vanish to pick it off, focus fire before the ability activates, or bait it out to make the player waste it) and allowing for slowing units to still be feasible against them. The stasis being cancelled by the player at any point and then going in to cool down allows them to express their ability to properly time and manage encounters. It matches the upgrades cloaking the Dark Shrine effect. A higher beginning speed for DTs and a similar ability to this "self-stasis" may be a good alternative. I didn't want to give a problem without at least to trying to suggest a constructive solution.

EDIT: I corrected some of my deplorable grammar.


No need to appologize! Ideas are what they are. Good ideas are often cobbled together from a bunch of incomplete or bad ideas. It's part of every design process.

The thing is this, if there is detection, DT's lose cost for cost vs almost every unit in the game. Therefore, their strength lies in their ability to avoid direct confrontation, much like the mutalisk. Speed and CC immunity allows DT's to "get away" far more than it allows them to engage.
As for flavor/theme, you are dead on the money. The Ultralisk gets to be immune to things as well, and many units have simple speed upgrades. The thing is we want to keep the number of activated abilities down to keep things simple and streamlined. Too many spells on non-casters and the game starts playing like a moba. We tried many cool and nifty mechanics with the DT and they all felt "off." The speed upgrade is simple and potent, allowing DTs to roam the map and slip away when detected (provided their Executor has fast reflexes) This accomplishes the goal without increasing the burden of knowledge.

As for stasis, that treads on the toes of the Mothership's Isolation Pulse ability, which does that effect in a way more involved and interesting manner.
Reflection and Respect.
Saigon2246
Profile Joined October 2012
Hungary23 Posts
March 03 2013 22:43 GMT
#820
Another idea or question: have you ever thought of giving the Colossus a siege mode? By siege mode I mean it would immobilize the Colossus and would give the same kind of AoE damage it has right now in WoL, so basicly the difference would be in non-siege mode, when it would have less range and no AoE, just like the Siege Tank in tank mode.

I guess that would make the protosses' job harder as they could't just a-move with their entire army on one hotkey as they siege up their Colossi separately. (Or this is just wishful thinking from me as I hate when they just A-move me with their Colossi when I play as zerg or terran...)
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