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[M] (4) Vector - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20323 Posts
October 30 2012 19:43 GMT
#41
I love it.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
rrwrwx
Profile Joined March 2011
United States247 Posts
October 30 2012 19:45 GMT
#42
It's so pretty! :D
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
October 30 2012 19:46 GMT
#43
Pink, what a bold aesthetic choice!
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1706 Posts
October 30 2012 20:02 GMT
#44
publish on NA Plz
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-30 20:40:02
October 30 2012 20:38 GMT
#45
OXYYYYYYY WTFFFFFF I am already making a map with mineral field walls. FUCK now people are going to think I am copying you. =(
jks

The problem with the 4th it takes 2 town halls for a player to get full gas income (they are pretty much mineral bases). Which won't really be a problem for zergs and in some cases terran. The point is that I worry for protoss players. They will think that they can't take a 4th. Toss have the hardest time expanding and this map won't help. Making those bases as golds would be good BUT REMOVE THE GAS. The problem with most golds is that they are just normal bases but better. If it's a mineral only, make it a good mineral only.

That's all I got. Pretty sweet. GJ.
Pucca
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Taiwan1280 Posts
October 30 2012 20:58 GMT
#46
Damn this a gorgous map.
Master Chief
TR
Profile Joined February 2011
2320 Posts
October 30 2012 22:48 GMT
#47
Wow really nice looking map!
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
October 31 2012 00:28 GMT
#48
On October 31 2012 05:38 Drake Merrwin wrote:
OXYYYYYYY WTFFFFFF I am already making a map with mineral field walls. FUCK now people are going to think I am copying you. =(
jks

The problem with the 4th it takes 2 town halls for a player to get full gas income (they are pretty much mineral bases). Which won't really be a problem for zergs and in some cases terran. The point is that I worry for protoss players. They will think that they can't take a 4th. Toss have the hardest time expanding and this map won't help. Making those bases as golds would be good BUT REMOVE THE GAS. The problem with most golds is that they are just normal bases but better. If it's a mineral only, make it a good mineral only.

That's all I got. Pretty sweet. GJ.

You don't need two town halls because of the 2 depleted mineral patches. This lets you distance mine the other geyser, which would only require 5-6 workers... aka the same number of workers as having 3 standard geysers, the same amount of gas income.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Bwaaaa
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia969 Posts
October 31 2012 07:54 GMT
#49
can the 3rd be seiged from the center?
SEEDPrebs
Profile Joined March 2012
Norway30 Posts
October 31 2012 09:07 GMT
#50
I just tested the map out in a custom game, and I really like the map! The only part i don't like is the low mineral patches at the "shared" base. The passageway wont be used unless you place the low mineral patches closest to the middle, simply because going through the middle is faster. (If they spawn horizontally)
Snute>Carlsen
OxyGenesis
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
October 31 2012 13:14 GMT
#51
On October 31 2012 04:00 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 01:14 OxyGenesis wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone. The mule issue I don't think is too bad, the depleted mins will mean that they can get around. The turtley 3rd issue isn't quite as acute as some are suggesting I feel. It slightly depends on whether you spawn cross or close. I've also tried to give attackers a lot of options and generally balance attack and defence. I do share the concerns, but I want to see how it plays out in it's current form before changing it.

One change I am thinking of is changing the 4ths to gold bases. This will hopefully reward those wanting to go to 4 bases, 6 gold min patches and 1 high yield gas is also a more standard mineral configuration. It also means that the patches would be mined out faster, yet mules would mine them at the same rate. Thoughts?


Not a good idea. It straight up benefits some races more than others. For instance, in ZvP a zerg will likely take the gold (because he can) whereas a Protoss can't expand there (nor will he get much benefit from it). You could look at making the thirds 5m/1g as to weaken the strength of holding the first three bases though?

On the fourths, I don't see any good reason why they are the way they are. Yes it's a cute novelty. But what does it really add to this map? Nothing, is what. Unit movement through that path once the minerals are cleared is slower than going through the mid so already is a situational path (think entombed valley side corridors situational). The increased 'harassability' of the base because of having two sides isn't really a good feature when you're trying to discourage 3 base play that is compounded by the fact each side only gets one gas. Moreover there are already two paths to your opponent if you need alternate routes. I would change those into a regular base tucked against the side of the map. That is far more likely to begin to alleviate the turtle on three base problem.


I thought for a long time about whether to use regular bases there. I wanted to push the boat out with this map and after careful consideration I felt there was enough to justify them. Firstly, they do make the rush distances in close positions slightly longer, but more importantly they limit attackers to only 1 attack path. That path is covered by the XNT, making controlling that area very important. It also helps alleviate the problem of Terrans taking centre bases in close positions with PFs (one of the problems with Entombed horizontal spawns).

Overall I would say that this map is like the models you see advertising dating agencies. They are flashy, exciting and new, but at the end of the day are used to get you to buy in to a concept where you are ultimately paired with something more suitable. I know that this map is unlikely to see tournament play, so why should I reign in my ideas to make it tournament viable? Instead I decided to make a map that wasn't incredibly solid, probably wasn't going to stand the test of time, but did have a bunch of interesting features that excited people whilst hopefully not being exploitable. The map is still on the front page of screddit over a day after I submitted it with 2000+ upvotes so in terms of promotion for community maps, which was one of the things that I set out to do, I feel like 'job done' . Plus I had a bunch of fun making it.

Does anyone have further comment on the 4ths-as-golds idea?


On October 31 2012 16:54 Bwaaaa wrote:
can the 3rd be seiged from the center?


No, I tested siege tanks all the way around the edge of the 3rd to make sure there is nothing too abusable.


On October 31 2012 18:07 -Prebs- wrote:
I just tested the map out in a custom game, and I really like the map! The only part i don't like is the low mineral patches at the "shared" base. The passageway wont be used unless you place the low mineral patches closest to the middle, simply because going through the middle is faster. (If they spawn horizontally)


Glad you enjoyed the map. The low mineral patches are on the outside to give better access to the gas on the other side. It's not really meant as a 'secret passageway'
Maker of Maps inc. Vector, Uncanny Valley and Fissure | Co-Founder of SC2Melee.net
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
October 31 2012 15:51 GMT
#52
I don't see what having them as gold offers. That would just skew towards mineral income unless you add geysers, which seems like a bad solution either way. They are plenty worthwhile just as an expansion away from the opponent in adjacent spawns, with an extra gas soon after the CC finishes.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
OxyGenesis
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
October 31 2012 16:40 GMT
#53
On November 01 2012 00:51 EatThePath wrote:
I don't see what having them as gold offers. That would just skew towards mineral income unless you add geysers, which seems like a bad solution either way. They are plenty worthwhile just as an expansion away from the opponent in adjacent spawns, with an extra gas soon after the CC finishes.


My main thinking was that golds are mined out faster, which opens up the route faster. It also means that terran don't have the same mining-out advantage that mules give you. 6 gold mins 1 high yield gas is also a more standard mins/gas ratio than 6 regular mins 1 hyg.
Maker of Maps inc. Vector, Uncanny Valley and Fissure | Co-Founder of SC2Melee.net
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
October 31 2012 19:31 GMT
#54
On November 01 2012 01:40 OxyGenesis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 00:51 EatThePath wrote:
I don't see what having them as gold offers. That would just skew towards mineral income unless you add geysers, which seems like a bad solution either way. They are plenty worthwhile just as an expansion away from the opponent in adjacent spawns, with an extra gas soon after the CC finishes.


My main thinking was that golds are mined out faster, which opens up the route faster. It also means that terran don't have the same mining-out advantage that mules give you. 6 gold mins 1 high yield gas is also a more standard mins/gas ratio than 6 regular mins 1 hyg.

6 standard mins 1hyg is 3/4 of a normal base. 6 gold mins would be skewed towards mineral income. However, you could also have a staircase distribution of minerals in the patches so that the base opens up and becomes progressively more mined out faster. Depends on what your goals are. Why do you want it to mine out more quickly? It's only 40% more quickly in the case of gold minerals anyway, which I don't think is fast enough to change the strategic incentives from how the map already plays (in my imaginings).
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
OxyGenesis
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
October 31 2012 19:57 GMT
#55
On November 01 2012 04:31 EatThePath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 01:40 OxyGenesis wrote:
On November 01 2012 00:51 EatThePath wrote:
I don't see what having them as gold offers. That would just skew towards mineral income unless you add geysers, which seems like a bad solution either way. They are plenty worthwhile just as an expansion away from the opponent in adjacent spawns, with an extra gas soon after the CC finishes.


My main thinking was that golds are mined out faster, which opens up the route faster. It also means that terran don't have the same mining-out advantage that mules give you. 6 gold mins 1 high yield gas is also a more standard mins/gas ratio than 6 regular mins 1 hyg.

6 standard mins 1hyg is 3/4 of a normal base. 6 gold mins would be skewed towards mineral income. However, you could also have a staircase distribution of minerals in the patches so that the base opens up and becomes progressively more mined out faster. Depends on what your goals are. Why do you want it to mine out more quickly? It's only 40% more quickly in the case of gold minerals anyway, which I don't think is fast enough to change the strategic incentives from how the map already plays (in my imaginings).


You're right, I think my brain derped a bit on the min/gas ratio thing. However, with the high yield on the other side it does become comparable. I just think it would be more interesting if the paths were opened up more quickly, how often is a 4th mined out?
Maker of Maps inc. Vector, Uncanny Valley and Fissure | Co-Founder of SC2Melee.net
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 31 2012 20:08 GMT
#56
You could turn it into an Entombed Valley side base. i.e. make the base normal but have rocks on both ramps. Would mean that the paths are opened significantly quicker.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Trasko
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden983 Posts
November 02 2012 09:17 GMT
#57
Loving this design! saw it on reddit, had to play it
Jaedong <3
Incomplet
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United Kingdom1419 Posts
November 02 2012 12:22 GMT
#58
Sexy map. A few tweaks and I would love to see this in tournament.
Bow down to the sons of Aiur...SKT1_Rain, CreatorPrime, ST_Parting, Liquid_Hero.
Rukis
Profile Joined April 2009
United States252 Posts
November 03 2012 00:50 GMT
#59
Could you be so kind to see what the map would be like with water instead of lava?
Flash was the Genius, Nada was the true god.
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
November 03 2012 01:51 GMT
#60
What would be the point of that

That's a big part of the map's aesthetic appeal, the unexpected but kind of cool magenta lava, and the huge contrast between it and the dark tileset
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
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