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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/adBNc.jpg)
SanctuaryFortress v0.12 Made by: DrakePHOSE Published on: NA Playable Bounds: 160 x 160 Reddit Thread
NOTE: YOU CANNOT BUILD ON THE CENTRE HIGH GROUND.+ Show Spoiler +
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Rq9OD.jpg)
This map was originally based of the BW Fighting Spirit. However it turned into something more like Tal'darim Altar. This is my second map.
Features
- Pseudo islands protected by neutral force fields.
- This fucker is huge.
- Open yet manageable (with watch towers) middle field.
- It's pretty to look at???? I hope so.
+ Show Spoiler [Aesthetics&Features] +
Concerns, Exploits, and Problems:
Solved:
- Zerg takes 3rd at gold. (Blocked with rocks)
- I'm not sure if the force fields are good or bad. I'm perfectly okay with removing them from the naturals (FFs removed from the naturals. 1 FF removed from ramp outside natural. 1 FF placed at 3rd ramp.)
- Centre becoming a defensive fort/Terran abusing the centre golds. (Centre high round fully blocked aside from a few 2x2 spots for pylons)
Unsolved:
- Sanctuary Fortress (with a space) is taken. I can't find Sanctuary Fortress with search. I need a back up name just in-case. I don't have one. =(
- Without the golds the centre seems pointless. No reason to control. I don't want a 5th watch tower either.
- Sentry based all ins at the 3rd vs zerg? IDK if this is a problem.
Change Log
Earlier Changes+ Show Spoiler +v0.1 + Show Spoiler [Pics] +- Beta release v0.2 - FFs removed from the naturals. - 1 FF removed from ramp outside natural. 1 FF placed at 3rd ramp. - 0.3 + Show Spoiler [Pics] +- Fixed a problem with the bounds. Bounds are now 160 x 160 from 158 x 158. - 0.4 - Centre high ground enlarged. - Centre high ground can no longer fit town hall.- 0.5 + Show Spoiler [Pics] +- Centre high ground can no longer fit town hall. Really this time. v0.6 - Fine tuning done to mineral fields. - Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. - Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground. v0.7 + Show Spoiler [Pics] +- Major over hall made to centre piece. - Fine tuning done to gold minerals. - Centre high round fully blocked aside from a few 2x2 spots for pylons. - Minor touch ups with some aesthetics. v0.8 - Fixes some pathing issues. - Force field decals optimized. v0.9 - More pathing issues fixed.
Latest Change
v0.10-0.11-0.12
- Cleaned up minor flaws.
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First off, I assume the Force Fields are destructible early game. I never used them, but I sure hope that you don't need massive units to break them.
Next, that center is the most imbalanced thing for terran I have seen a while, hide a CC, fly it inside, and get access to 9(?) gold min fields. Would take forever for the other races to expo there. You can also fly over to take your third on the island.
Cardinal ramps don't really work properly with buildings
The center is really open, that favors Zerg.
Also getting a 4th up looks near impossible.
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I do like the ramp down from the third though, pretty cool to have a high ground third. You'll want to check to make sure you can't get vision into the main for pylons in PvX and checking tanks is also probably worth it.
I think the harassable mineral lines that you have in the middle are a cool idea, but having this many minerals this close together, particularly in an almost island location, will pretty much exclusively be used by terran. Even normal bases that are mineral only are only useful to Terran...
@Mono, I'm pretty sure you do need massive units to break them, otherwise what's the point? I suppose you can burrow move under them, but that's not particularly interesting. Since most of the forcefields only make some chokes smaller I think this is okay and interesting, though not particularly close to standard.
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I think if you brought in another mineral line on the low ground toward the center at each base and made each side expo favor each base more (make them less neutral), it would be a pretty sick map.
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Hey, I would think about:
1. Removing the golds. Let the middle be open space with a tower. That stuff is just too abusive and not balanced properly.
2. Tighten up the middle. Make the map smaller and bring the main natural and third (a bit) closer to the middle.
--- I would actually tighten up the radius of this map a lot more.
3. Remove the forcefields from the ramp. This map is already big as hell - don't need another rush deterrent.
4. Move the main ramp so that it is pointing diagonally the other direction from the middle of the cliff - pointing towards the minerals. Move it up a bit.
5. Consider making the third ramp 1x1 so that it can be easier to defend the third with less units?
6. Remove the FFs from the 4th.
In general - the corridors of maps apparently need to be much tighter in SC2 because of the way (certain...cough) races work. Focus on making the map as tight and clean as possible and remove ANY extra space. Efficiency of layout is key. I like the faraway 3rd, but there's a reason why those don't really work in this game - at least right now. There's another great mapper who made a WONDERFUL map based off of Fighting Spirit - and made the concepts work really well. Take a look and see what you can steal!
The map is CD Quarantine Zone by caustic. Take a look! Notice how he tightens things up and is very efficient with space. He makes sure there are corridors so that FFs can be used properly. The main to natural transition is seamless. He makes the faraway 3rd work by using a 1x1 ramp to prevent busts!
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Part of the problem with making the 4ths less neutral is that then non-cross spawns become an issue because one player is expanding away from their opponent while the other is expanding toward their opponent. I think the neutral placement is good, though maybe having two paths into/out of them?
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On September 28 2012 17:36 RFDaemoniac wrote:
Part of the problem with making the 4ths less neutral is that then non-cross spawns become an issue because one player is expanding away from their opponent while the other is expanding toward their opponent. I think the neutral placement is good, though maybe having two paths into/out of them?
Having it like it is means you either have to secure your forward base with your army, or you can push over and expand to another third/nat cluster. I like it this way.
I really like the state of this map right now, it oculd be interesting and it's "different" enough to not be super standard like the majority of the current maps are.
The middle should be changed to 2 sets of minerals, not gold I feel and the third ramp from the center should be made a single ramp with double into it (if you're going like Fighting Spirit), but other than that it looks good.
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On September 28 2012 08:54 Monochromatic wrote:
First off, I assume the Force Fields are destructible early game. I never used them, but I sure hope that you don't need massive units to break them.
Next, that center is the most imbalanced thing for terran I have seen a while, hide a CC, fly it inside, and get access to 9(?) gold min fields. Would take forever for the other races to expo there. You can also fly over to take your third on the island.
Cardinal ramps don't really work properly with buildings
The center is really open, that favors Zerg.
Also getting a 4th up looks near impossible.
The ffs are not. They take masive units. That's the point however. I wanted pseudo islands as an option for protoss and terran to take as a 3rd.
If you knock down the rocks you can expo there. The ramps that that minerals are on don't block you or push back your main building but it does prevent you from making cannons or turrets.
I don't agree that it favors zerg. The fact that it's open just means that protoss and terran have to keep an eye on army movement and vision. Just like that GSL finals game on Tal'darim Altar between Leenock and jjakji.
As for the 4th I would agree with you in TvP (when do terrans get a thor in that match up?). However the point of the force fields is to force zergs into choosing more aggressive tech. They need ultras for that island and if they what another base instead they need a fast army. Not broods and infestors, which are boring to watch.
On September 28 2012 13:11 RFDaemoniac wrote:
I do like the ramp down from the third though, pretty cool to have a high ground third. You'll want to check to make sure you can't get vision into the main for pylons in PvX and checking tanks is also probably worth it.
I think the harassable mineral lines that you have in the middle are a cool idea, but having this many minerals this close together, particularly in an almost island location, will pretty much exclusively be used by terran. Even normal bases that are mineral only are only useful to Terran...
@Mono, I'm pretty sure you do need massive units to break them, otherwise what's the point? I suppose you can burrow move under them, but that's not particularly interesting. Since most of the forcefields only make some chokes smaller I think this is okay and interesting, though not particularly close to standard.
I already checked. The third can't warp/hit the main. Altho if the building are placed poorly, tanks can.
I agree with you that terran can use them the most but it's not like zergs and toss can't use them. the golds are far enough, hard enough to get and on top of that, they don't give gas. How ever i want people in particular protoss and zergs to FUCKING TRY. That being said, I'm okay with removing them however the center then becomes pointless and I don't want a 5TH watch tower.
On September 28 2012 14:33 Sepnova wrote:
I think if you brought in another mineral line on the low ground toward the center at each base and made each side expo favor each base more (make them less neutral), it would be a pretty sick map.
The golds do favor each spawn. Lets say you spawn top right and they spawn bottom right. You will be naturally taking expanding to the left. If you have your watch tower and can not only take the gold but the island as well (assuming you break the ffs).
On September 28 2012 15:18 Qwyn wrote:Hey, I would think about: 1. Removing the golds. Let the middle be open space with a tower. That stuff is just too abusive and not balanced properly. 2. Tighten up the middle. Make the map smaller and bring the main natural and third (a bit) closer to the middle. --- I would actually tighten up the radius of this map a lot more. 3. Remove the forcefields from the ramp. This map is already big as hell - don't need another rush deterrent. 4. Move the main ramp so that it is pointing diagonally the other direction from the middle of the cliff - pointing towards the minerals. Move it up a bit. 5. Consider making the third ramp 1x1 so that it can be easier to defend the third with less units? 6. Remove the FFs from the 4th. In general - the corridors of maps apparently need to be much tighter in SC2 because of the way (certain...cough) races work. Focus on making the map as tight and clean as possible and remove ANY extra space. Efficiency of layout is key. I like the faraway 3rd, but there's a reason why those don't really work in this game - at least right now. There's another great mapper who made a WONDERFUL map based off of Fighting Spirit - and made the concepts work really well. Take a look and see what you can steal! The map is CD Quarantine Zone by caustic. Take a look! Notice how he tightens things up and is very efficient with space. He makes sure there are corridors so that FFs can be used properly. The main to natural transition is seamless. He makes the faraway 3rd work by using a 1x1 ramp to prevent busts!
Please read my unsolved probs. I don't want to put a 5TH watch tower. It doesn't add anything to the map and I kind of like the idea that the maps center will involve small battles.
It seems like you're asking me to copy Fighting Spirit. That map is Fighting Spirit 2.0 (- the watch tower and no center expo). I don't want to copy. Get ideas from, yes. Copy, no.
On September 28 2012 17:36 RFDaemoniac wrote:
Part of the problem with making the 4ths less neutral is that then non-cross spawns become an issue because one player is expanding away from their opponent while the other is expanding toward their opponent. I think the neutral placement is good, though maybe having two paths into/out of them?
That's interesting because personally I think no matter the spawns, there is a clear expo path for each race and strat. What makes you say that? Is it because the 3rds ramp is 2 ffs wide?
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I fully support these aesthetics.
Bloom efffeeeects !
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Yay FFs. They are a little overused here but it's a feature that should be considered more often! (Not as easy to use as rocks, sort of imba vs zerg requiring hive tech to break.)
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On September 29 2012 01:42 ArcticRaven wrote:
I fully support these aesthetics.
Bloom efffeeeects !
=D
On September 29 2012 04:05 EatThePath wrote:
Yay FFs. They are a little overused here but it's a feature that should be considered more often! (Not as easy to use as rocks, sort of imba vs zerg requiring hive tech to break.)
To be honest. That 1 force field at the natural is just a test. I don't actually think they are needed.
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natural choke should be 9-10 squares unless the map is doing something else intentionally. the other ones don't seem necessary at that chokepoint. maybe you should use 2ramps at the 3rd bases, and use FF there to reduce to 1ramp. and for the islands of course.
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On September 29 2012 09:55 EatThePath wrote:
natural choke should be 9-10 squares unless the map is doing something else intentionally. the other ones don't seem necessary at that chokepoint. maybe you should use 2ramps at the 3rd bases, and use FF there to reduce to 1ramp. and for the islands of course.
I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say, so bear with me.
The natural choke is 6 wide with the FF, 9 without.
I assume you mean the FF at the natural choke are not necessary? or the ramp with 2 FFs past the choke with 1 FF?
Your idea of making the 3rd's ramp a 1 FF ramp got me thinking. Someone earlier said (or I think they said) that the ramp at the 3rd is too wide if you are expanding away from it. I think I'm remove 1 FF from the ramp outside the natural and put it at the 3rd.
I like that better than both being 1 FF wide or 1 not even having a FF. This means that players aren't as afraid of HUGE counter attacks coming at them pre-ultras/archons while they are expanding away from the ramps to their 4th+.
I'll update tomorrow. Night TL.
EDIT: I accidentally a word.
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On September 29 2012 10:48 Drake Merrwin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:55 EatThePath wrote:
natural choke should be 9-10 squares unless the map is doing something else intentionally. the other ones don't seem necessary at that chokepoint. maybe you should use 2ramps at the 3rd bases, and use FF there to reduce to 1ramp. and for the islands of course. I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say, so bear with me. The natural choke is 6 wide with the FF, 9 without. I assume you mean the FF and the natural choke are not necessary? or the ramp with 2 FFs past the choke with 1 FF?
Yes, this is what I meant, sorry. 
Your idea of making the 3rd's ramp a 1 FF ramp got me thinking. Someone earlier said (or I think they said) that the ramp at the 3rd is too wide if you are expanding away from it. I think I'm remove 1 FF from the ramp outside the natural and put it at the 3rd.
I like that better than both being 1 FF wide or 1 not even having a FF. This means that players aren't as afraid of HUGE counter attacks coming at them pre-ultras/archons while they are expanding away from the ramps to their 4th+.
I'll update tomorrow. Night TL.
Also colossus can break FF, and they are probably the most easily attainable standard unit that can do so. You have to take that into consideration for TvP and ZvP.
I also realized that burrow-move roaches can circumvent permanent FF walls, which is kind of cool. Burrow-move isn't used that often anymore; this is an interesting way to give incentive for it.
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v0.2 - FFs removed from the naturals. 1 FF removed from ramp outside natural. 1 FF placed at 3rd ramp.
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v0.3 Fixed a problem with the bounds. Bounds are now 160 x 160 from 158 x 158.
v0.4 Centre high ground enlarged. Centre high ground can no longer fit town hall.
SHIT I JUST SAW MY MISTAKE FUCK NVMMMMMMMMMMM
I'll update as soon as I can.
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It looks like they can still fit!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/A68YFl.jpg)
But good call  you might want to reduce the count of minerals so that you can't get a HUGE mineral income for very long by mining after killing the rocks. Also you should playtest to make sure that those minerals can't be walked through, because it looks like there are some holes to me.
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On October 02 2012 10:51 RFDaemoniac wrote:It looks like they can still fit! But good call you might want to reduce the count of minerals so that you can't get a HUGE mineral income for very long by mining after killing the rocks. Also you should playtest to make sure that those minerals can't be walked through, because it looks like there are some holes to me.
I did. You can't walk thro.
And yeah I JUST saw it. I'll fix.
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v0.6 Fine tuning done to mineral fields. Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground.
No more creep means no spins to fortify the high ground. PFs can't fit there till the minerals are mined out in which case that's the point. The only defensive fortification that can be made is cannons. If I try to block all buildings, protoss can't warp in because I think warp ins are considered buildings. Think this is enough because protosses don't make cannon seas like zergs or terrans do.
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On October 09 2012 07:36 Drake Merrwin wrote:
v0.6 Fine tuning done to mineral fields. Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground.
No more creep means no spins to fortify the high ground. PFs can't fit there till the minerals are mined out in which case that's the point. The only defensive fortification that can be made is cannons. If I try to block all buildings, protoss can't warp in because I think warp ins are considered buildings. Think this is enough because protosses don't make cannon seas like zergs or terrans do.
For what it's worth, protoss would definitely enjoy the opportunity to place cannons to protect the back side of the gold. Warp ins are not buildings at any point I don't think...? So don't worry about that. Also if someone tries to take the gold (like a zerg for their 4th) protoss will put down cannons on the back side of it, which is a perfectly good investment for them (minerals are cheap, denies zerg 4th, staging ground for attacks / place to hold broodlords).
It might be more effective just to put some trees here and there to prevent placing CC on the inside of the gold minerals. idk.
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On October 09 2012 09:18 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:36 Drake Merrwin wrote:
v0.6 Fine tuning done to mineral fields. Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground.
No more creep means no spins to fortify the high ground. PFs can't fit there till the minerals are mined out in which case that's the point. The only defensive fortification that can be made is cannons. If I try to block all buildings, protoss can't warp in because I think warp ins are considered buildings. Think this is enough because protosses don't make cannon seas like zergs or terrans do. For what it's worth, protoss would definitely enjoy the opportunity to place cannons to protect the back side of the gold. Warp ins are not buildings at any point I don't think...? So don't worry about that. Also if someone tries to take the gold (like a zerg for their 4th) protoss will put down cannons on the back side of it, which is a perfectly good investment for them (minerals are cheap, denies zerg 4th, staging ground for attacks / place to hold broodlords). It might be more effective just to put some trees here and there to prevent placing CC on the inside of the gold minerals. idk.
I already blocked town halls from fitting in there.
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On October 09 2012 09:56 Drake Merrwin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 09:18 EatThePath wrote:On October 09 2012 07:36 Drake Merrwin wrote:
v0.6 Fine tuning done to mineral fields. Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground.
No more creep means no spins to fortify the high ground. PFs can't fit there till the minerals are mined out in which case that's the point. The only defensive fortification that can be made is cannons. If I try to block all buildings, protoss can't warp in because I think warp ins are considered buildings. Think this is enough because protosses don't make cannon seas like zergs or terrans do. For what it's worth, protoss would definitely enjoy the opportunity to place cannons to protect the back side of the gold. Warp ins are not buildings at any point I don't think...? So don't worry about that. Also if someone tries to take the gold (like a zerg for their 4th) protoss will put down cannons on the back side of it, which is a perfectly good investment for them (minerals are cheap, denies zerg 4th, staging ground for attacks / place to hold broodlords). It might be more effective just to put some trees here and there to prevent placing CC on the inside of the gold minerals. idk. I already blocked town halls from fitting in there.
I meant instead of what you already did, so that all races can build static defense / creep up there.
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On October 09 2012 13:54 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 09:56 Drake Merrwin wrote:On October 09 2012 09:18 EatThePath wrote:On October 09 2012 07:36 Drake Merrwin wrote:
v0.6 Fine tuning done to mineral fields. Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground.
No more creep means no spins to fortify the high ground. PFs can't fit there till the minerals are mined out in which case that's the point. The only defensive fortification that can be made is cannons. If I try to block all buildings, protoss can't warp in because I think warp ins are considered buildings. Think this is enough because protosses don't make cannon seas like zergs or terrans do. For what it's worth, protoss would definitely enjoy the opportunity to place cannons to protect the back side of the gold. Warp ins are not buildings at any point I don't think...? So don't worry about that. Also if someone tries to take the gold (like a zerg for their 4th) protoss will put down cannons on the back side of it, which is a perfectly good investment for them (minerals are cheap, denies zerg 4th, staging ground for attacks / place to hold broodlords). It might be more effective just to put some trees here and there to prevent placing CC on the inside of the gold minerals. idk. I already blocked town halls from fitting in there. I meant instead of what you already did, so that all races can build static defense / creep up there.
Okay. Let me clear up somethings about the centre. You cannot make it up there even if you knock down the rocks. Only if you mine it out, drop and/or land units there. Building blockers block warp ins. I tested.
When I made this map, the centre was open. However I found that without a 5TH FUCKING WATCHTOWER (which I do not want), the centre didn't serve any significance other than the aesthetics I put there. So I was playing around with another map that had areas blocked off by mineral fields and applied it to this map. That's how the golds got there. I added the rocks to prevent ZvP abuse and now the high ground is a pseudo island.
I like this design better because it's unique, creates different opportunities to expand, and most interestingly, at least to me, it creates to equal routes in cross positions. Kind of like what Daybreak does, except a completely different blocker.
However, people raised concerns about the high ground and the potential abuse. All of which were seems kind of insignificant to me. However I realized that the bigger concern is that the high ground promotes defensive/slow play. Whether the abuse is a legitimate concern, is not the problem. The problem is the last thing I want is the very aggressive part of the map to turning into a place where people turtle, whether or not it's good or bad.
So I put blockers on high ground to prevent terrans setting up shop with PFs and now with this change, spines are also blocked.
However, not all things are blocked. Bunkers, turrets, cannons.
As I said earlier building blockers for some fucking reason, block warp ins as well. Which is crucial for Protoss aggression. If I block it with creep, zergs will poop their way on it. If I fully block that fucker, toss can't warp in. If I do nothing, well then SHIT.
Sigh. I don't know. I gotta think.
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Oh. Well that will just be terran imba because they can drop one medivac in the middle and deny any mining. =\
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You can warp in on no-build ground. Maybe you mistakenly placed no-path?
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I JUST tested. What building blocker are you using? It doesn't work for me.
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I am using painted no-build in the pathing tab. It shows up yellow in the editor.
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On October 10 2012 14:22 EatThePath wrote:
I am using painted no-build in the pathing tab. It shows up yellow in the editor.
WTF!!!!1111!!!!!! THAT EXISTS???!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!11111
I'M SO DUMB.
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This looks really interesting. Even if it isn't a balanced map per sé, it may help think outside of the box in future maps. Very nice theme as well, but that middle is just wrong in many ways for Terran
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On October 10 2012 16:00 Callynn wrote:This looks really interesting. Even if it isn't a balanced map per sé, it may help think outside of the box in future maps. Very nice theme as well, but that middle is just wrong in many ways for Terran
In what way? You can't fit town halls up there.
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On October 10 2012 14:33 Drake Merrwin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 14:22 EatThePath wrote:
I am using painted no-build in the pathing tab. It shows up yellow in the editor. WTF!!!!1111!!!!!! THAT EXISTS???!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!11111 I'M SO DUMB.
;D
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May have gone a little overboard on the aesthetics. =D
v0.7
- Major over hall made to centre piece.
- Fine tuning done to gold minerals.
- Centre high round fully blocked aside from a few 2x2 spots for pylons.
- Minor touch ups with some aesthetics.
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Sick map, i love it. Looks promissing gameplay wise and very appealing visually.
On October 10 2012 16:00 Callynn wrote:This looks really interesting. Even if it isn't a balanced map per sé, it may help think outside of the box in future maps. Very nice theme as well, but that middle is just wrong in many ways for Terran
I think it actually balances it well and terrans can't abuse the center that much, which would give them unfair advantage like on Crevasse (which was the reason why that map was removed from gsl)
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On October 15 2012 19:49 Asmodeusx wrote:
sorry double post
All good muda fucka. All good.
On October 15 2012 19:46 Asmodeusx wrote:Sick map, i love it. Looks promissing gameplay wise and very appealing visually. Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 16:00 Callynn wrote:This looks really interesting. Even if it isn't a balanced map per sé, it may help think outside of the box in future maps. Very nice theme as well, but that middle is just wrong in many ways for Terran I think it actually balances it well and terrans can't abuse the center that much, which would give them unfair advantage like on Crevasse (which was the reason why that map was removed from gsl)
I realI thought it was removed because of the poor quality of expansions. The 3rd was really open and the 4rd could be hit from the centre. On top of that, only half of the expansions where full 8 minerals 2 gas.
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I think the third should be closer and mabye add a island.
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On October 18 2012 05:16 DontNerfInfestors wrote:
I think the third should be closer and mabye add a island.
If I move the 3rd it opens dead space.
May I direct your eyes to the expansions that are completely blocked by force fields.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oMyrY.jpg)
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