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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
Please bring an open mind to this map.
Korhal Pale Ivy
56'
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rHdjkRn.jpg)
90'
+ Show Spoiler +
All positions enabled.
206x228
4 XNT
20 8m2g
2 split 8m2g
Published on NA
The aggressively, even stupidly unorthodox design was inspired by my own dissatisfaction with a stagnant map pool a while back when I made a 2-player version, see here. I read a comment about maps being made for a metagame that doesn't exist, and then I saw Arkanoid and eventually Icarus and how refreshing their games are so I decided making maps that force their own metagame is in fact desirable. Not every map has to be good for all strategies. Not every map has to be made for a 3 base opener -> max deathball vs max deathball ZvP metagame. So let's make a 4 player map with XNTs that see yer base and low ground mains and multiple scouting paths and no good path for your maxed army just to see what happens.
As for progress, the main bit I'm unhappy with is the sides because they're boring and waste the possibility of secondary attack paths. I also see potential for good use of LoS blockers which the map currently lacks. The natural backdoor might benefit from the new HotS rocks. The main ramp might need a neutral structure to make walling easier.
Cheers TL keep up the good work!
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your Country52797 Posts
If you're going to use that design you need to make the naturals a lot easier to defend.
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xeno have you played that monstrosity? XD can I ask what level you play at? broken map is broken, but for fun, it looks fun. 
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Every game P will just 4-gate straight into the main with proxy pylons on the high ground.
Edit: And that's only one of the map's many glaring problems, which are too numerous for me to quickly list.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o4u0NrFl.jpg)
Yes, those are permanent blinding clouds.
In one of the spawns the rush distance is very short but it's extremely easy to maintain a defensive position on top of the clouds with whatever, in order to avoid the clouds you have to walk quite a long way around. Map is extremely choked to balance out the fact that clouds of course favour Zerg.
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^
I really like it. Worried for terran though. Hellbats and mines should help. I'm not sure about the wide ramps on the 6/12 mains. The path looks barely longer for attacker between front ramp and back door. Other than that I can't really say more.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EbyW8oQ.jpg)
144x152 [] eggs blocking path to island-- this will become something much cooler in a while. 3-way door where only 1 door can be open at a time, proximity activated. (This means you can keep a unit at your natural next to the door, holding it open and locking the others.)
I like this layout without the gimmicks too, aka no back pathway and just a plain island. Trying to promote island 3rd without handicapping anyone. It will have some no-build to prevent turret spam around a PF. What do you people think?
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I do like it but I feel it's just too chocked to ver be able to work unless of course you would put neutral blinding clouds all over the place.
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+ Show Spoiler +
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SCWf3c4.jpg)
Experimenting with some collapsible tower+resource combinations. As Fatam discovered, the falling rocks (or in this case, debris) will permanently erase any resources that it hits Because of this, I may increase the tower's health so that it can't be taken out very early in the game, especially considering the late nature of that particular base. The third geyser, the one that can be removed, is high-yield.
I have no idea if this is even remotely balanced/useful/interesting.
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That's definitely interesting, but in a lot of games it won't matter. I think that's fine. But, I would try to make it matter as much as possible. For example, make a "free" backdoor 3/4 natural like Crevasse, with rocks that can be hit from the outside that will delete a geyser and 2 mineral patches, or something.
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On January 29 2013 14:55 EatThePath wrote:
That's definitely interesting, but in a lot of games it won't matter. I think that's fine. But, I would try to make it matter as much as possible. For example, make a "free" backdoor 3/4 natural like Crevasse, with rocks that can be hit from the outside that will delete a geyser and 2 mineral patches, or something.
How about not even from the outside, just in the base, it starts as a normal expo but the ultimate harass move can basically kill the patches forever? But you need to drop or void ray harass or get mutas or whatever to do that?
So you also basically want to drop all your mules on those patches to mine them out as quickly as possible.
Minor upvate to completely make the crossfire ripoff complete:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uwUvyFnl.jpg?1)
- minerals are now moved a bit from the ledge to make them slightly more defensible
- Tasteless secret hallway added for another even ground attack path though it can be zone controlled from the high ground.
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I liked SiskosGoatee's idea so I decided to implement it on Adun's Overlook.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ngqdB52.jpg)
Because why not. Free in-base natural that originally had 6m1g but now has 2 geysers because having an early drop wipe out an entire base's gas, especially the natural seems too brutal. Right now it takes out 1/6 of the minerals and one gas geyser.
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On January 30 2013 00:47 Coppermantis wrote:I liked SiskosGoatee's idea so I decided to implement it on Adun's Overlook. Because why not. Free in-base natural that originally had 6m1g but now has 2 geysers because having an early drop wipe out an entire base's gas, especially the natural seems too brutal. Right now it takes out 1/6 of the minerals and one gas geyser.
I like the position of the rocks, it should be really hard to get to them with a drop and can't be destroyed with a banshee from a non-accessible place. But you should think about the idea is this way - killing these rocks means the opponent lost the equivalent of units worth these resources, as long as you have the same amount of bases as he or her, that is HUGE! So it will lead to very interesting game where each player tries to kill each other rocks as soon as possible, should be fun to watch!
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On January 30 2013 02:32 moskonia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 00:47 Coppermantis wrote:I liked SiskosGoatee's idea so I decided to implement it on Adun's Overlook. Because why not. Free in-base natural that originally had 6m1g but now has 2 geysers because having an early drop wipe out an entire base's gas, especially the natural seems too brutal. Right now it takes out 1/6 of the minerals and one gas geyser. killing these rocks means the opponent lost the equivalent of units worth these resources If you could think like that, then every Zerg building costs infinite minerals because that drone could've kept mining forever.
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On January 30 2013 02:36 SiskosGoatee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 02:32 moskonia wrote:On January 30 2013 00:47 Coppermantis wrote:I liked SiskosGoatee's idea so I decided to implement it on Adun's Overlook. Because why not. Free in-base natural that originally had 6m1g but now has 2 geysers because having an early drop wipe out an entire base's gas, especially the natural seems too brutal. Right now it takes out 1/6 of the minerals and one gas geyser. killing these rocks means the opponent lost the equivalent of units worth these resources If you could think like that, then every Zerg building costs infinite minerals because that drone could've kept mining forever.
No, its not nearly the same, in fact it is the opposite of that. A drone that is not mining is simply potential resources, which can be mined by newly created workers, but the minerals that disappear reduce income by a slight bit, depends on how many workers and bases you have, and also more importantly, in the lategame if you both have the same amount of bases, but one has destroyed the other's rocks, than the one with the rocks intact will have a large lead of resources (In this specific case 1500 minerals and 2500 gas, which matters a lot in the super lategame).
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I wouldn't necessarily call those resources spent on the harassment units "lost" per se, because unless the units are destroyed during the attack they can still be used. A marine/medivac drop for instance only contains units that would be built anyway (unless the player is meching), and skytoss is becoming increasingly popular in HotS, so some Void Rays or even Tempests could potentially be dispatched to snipe the rocks.
The exception is things like mutalisks and banshees, which can still be used for standard harassment.
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It depends on how long the game goes, just like when discussing mules vs. supply drops. If the bases get mined out, then any supply drop(s) you used were 100 minerals created (or 'saved', if you like).. it's as simple as that. Whereas mules don't create money, they just allow you to harvest the minerals available to you faster (you get more money more up front, but you mine out faster). If the game ends before the mining-out point though, then the supply drops you used were worth only a % of that 100 minerals (that % being based on how close you were to mining out when the game ended, and some other factors).
In this case it's the same, just instead of resources created it's resources destroyed. If the game goes to the point where you're mined out, then those resources destroyed by rocks were the same as units lost. But if it ends before that point, then it's only a %.
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Oh, I misunderstood. For some reason I read that the harassing player lost resources equivalent to the damage done by the harassment because he/she had to commit units to the harassment. Upon re-reading, I see what moskonia actually said. That makes more sense, yeah.
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Fatam, you forgot that the resources lost also reduce income, so killing the rocks will be worth it even if teh game does not reach lategame (as long as the one with rocks destroyed has more workers than the optimal per base). This is why even killing one mineral patch should have a big impact on the game as long as it does not end very soon after. Killing a geyser should have a huge impact on the game, which is awesome, since it sorta forces the players to harass, since while it is a risk, the reward is very good.
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one mineral patch is about 80-90 minerals per minute with 2 worker saturation
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E1XiYUU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lbs5H4N.jpg)
