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Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 26

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
December 03 2012 03:10 GMT
#501
This is a much softer palette than you often see in maps, and I think it works very well. These are HotS assets, yes?
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 03:15:05
December 03 2012 03:14 GMT
#502
On December 03 2012 12:10 RFDaemoniac wrote:
This is a much softer palette than you often see in maps, and I think it works very well. These are HotS assets, yes?
Quite, the textures I use are Kaldir (hots snow map) + one part of Nilfheim, and further Shakuras Hextiles and bricks as well as Ulaan Grunge.

The snow cliffs are HotS as well as some crystals, a lot of the doodats are still WoL. I have no idea if it's only me, but there are a lot of HotS doodats in the editor for me which simply don't work, it says it can't load the actors and you get errors ingame if you use them.

Edit: I didn't want to make it too white, I hear the complaint with snow maps is often that they make you snow blind when playing on it for a while so I adjusted the fog and lightning to make it a bit more muddy snow.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
December 03 2012 05:59 GMT
#503
[image loading]

I made a new map that has a main/nat/third setup much like the one I posted a while ago but with a significantly revamped middleground. I hope that it is an improvement; the area is a lot less choked now. I do worry about the position of the Healing Shrines; I may end up making them simply be watchtowers. As it stands, an army there would be pretty powerful with the high ground+ healing allowing them to hold that position and defend the natural and fourth pretty well.
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
December 03 2012 06:04 GMT
#504
Honestly, I thought the original Star Station layout was more interesting than this one. It had a lot of complex pathways which is what I like.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
December 03 2012 07:16 GMT
#505
On December 03 2012 15:04 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Honestly, I thought the original Star Station layout was more interesting than this one. It had a lot of complex pathways which is what I like.


I thought that it was interesting as well, but this one seems more balanced and efficient. I could be wrong though.

I can always make this one more varied, it's easier for me to add more than revamp an area that's too crowded.
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 11:04:34
December 03 2012 11:03 GMT
#506
Just a fun little experimental layout:

[image loading]

1: Yap, it's a 2width ramp.
2: Yap, it's a hots map so this isn't an immediate problem
3: Yap, it has an inbase half natural
4: yap, it has a backdoor a la jungle basin
5: yap, the map is not symmetric.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
dezi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1536 Posts
December 03 2012 13:06 GMT
#507
[image loading]
I'd like to hear feedback on this one.
TPW Member | My Maps @ TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171486 | Search 'dezi' at EU
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
December 03 2012 20:51 GMT
#508
@dezi: Anything you're wondering about specifically? From what I see the watchtower coverage may be a bit extreme, since only attacks on the 5th are not covered by a watchtower. I like the balance of choked areas to open areas, with this leaning toward smallish open areas as the majority terrain feature. I like the aesthetic of all of the LOS blockers that have been drawn, but I'm not sure how useful they all are.

@Siskos: I would like to see series on asymmetrical maps where players alternate which side they spawn on. I think this looks pretty wonky and could be fun to figure out, too.

@Coppermatis: I think healing centers should be treated even more like gold bases are, i.e. they should be in corners so you have to give up map control in order to use them. Or they can act as an area where you can send your units when they are injured instead of letting them die. Putting one in the main base could be interesting to this end, particularly if it has a very slow regen effect.
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
December 03 2012 22:16 GMT
#509
I haven't tried the HotS editor and I don't know how the healing towers work, so this might not be feasible, but I'd really like to see/test a map where the main and nat are on the same level but a healing tower is added in the main near the choke to give a defender's advantage. This could really free up the use of all 3 cliff levels to their full extent.
vibeo gane,
Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 22:46:19
December 03 2012 22:39 GMT
#510
@Coppermatis: I think healing centers should be treated even more like gold bases are, i.e. they should be in corners so you have to give up map control in order to use them. Or they can act as an area where you can send your units when they are injured instead of letting them die. Putting one in the main base could be interesting to this end, particularly if it has a very slow regen effect.

I think it depends on whether they give a combat advantage. If they're only useful in between battles I'd say they're fine to have in the middle, except maybe for PvP if they can heal Protoss HP which won't heal at all while away from the tower. Unlike gold bases, I'd guess they can switch hands quite quickly like watchtowers.

I didn't know there were healing towers. Those are built into hots or are they custom? I've been thinking some incentive for players to have map control would be good for the game so long as it isn't too gimmicky or un-starcrafty. I don't think healing towers quite fulfill that, though. Something which can be fought over and captured instantly, gives a passive advantage but not a positional advantage (the map maker can decide how easy they are to hold,) and is something you want to be holding as much as possible throughout all points in the game, so as to encourage players fighting over map control earlier on.

Currently I see it like this:

1. Bases in the middle give an economic advantage, which is an advantage you'd always want. Unfortunately they aren't fought over much because it takes a lot of money and time to take one, and it takes a long time to pay for itself, so you won't go for one unless you think you can hold it for a while. This doesn't really help to encourage fighting over map control throughout the game.

2. Watchtowers are instantly capturable and can switch hands frequently. Unfortunately, they are positional, favoring the player who already has them, and they also don't give a passive sort of advantage where a player would be encouraged to move out or else the opponent would get ahead from holding them.

3. Healing wells I guess work like watchtowers so they can switch hands, but they might share some of the same problems in that they are positional and only help you when you're already having an action-packed game. They don't help turn a passive game into an action-packed game, which is more what SC2 needs.

I think it's weird to have something in starcraft which gives you income that doesn't come from the resources on the map, so something like "hold watchtower and earn minerals," doesn't really make sense although that would work better than any of these. Maybe some kind of production boost like a channeled (constant, not energy-based, so every second you hold it counts) targeted chrono boost you could use on any of your buildings would work, but it might be kinda gimmicky or seem out of place in starcraft.

Still, I think healing wells are better than both central bases and watchtowers when it comes to encouraging players to fight over map control, so I welcome the addition. Could mean more mutas as well, which is probably a good thing. Maybe we could have mana wells as well. Actually, I want to see waygates so we can adjust the travel distances on maps in crazy ways and break the barriers of geometry. I wasn't very hopeful about being able to use anything like that in SC2 but after seeing Arkenoid yesterday, maybe there's a possibility to do more crazy stuff in the proleague map pool.
all's fair in love and melodies
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
December 03 2012 23:47 GMT
#511
I haven't tested it, but does anyone know if the Healing Shrines have a delay from taking damage before the healing kicks in?

I do like the idea of putting the Shrines in mains, though. It adds a nice earlygame defenders advantage (also giving a buff to Stim before medivacs) but it might invalidate rushes like 6pools depending on placement. Might not be a horrible thing though.
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
December 04 2012 00:57 GMT
#512
Personally, if you want to give a "defender's advantage" I think something that gives units +1 armor while they stay within, say, 2 or 3 squares, would do a LOT more than a slow heal trickle (which really won't do much during a fight considering how bursty SC2 is). Unless you adjust the #s on the healing well to make it heal really fast, but that could cause some really bad situations, such as 1 thor sitting on the well killing wave upon wave of reinforcements b/c they can't outdps the healing

b/c of this dilemma I think the healing wells will be more of an out-of-combat thing.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
December 04 2012 02:15 GMT
#513
I would put the healing well in a well-secured area, such as between the main and natural. The defenders advantage that this would give is allow you to retreat your units to the healing and then bring them back to the fight, not that they would be stronger in the fight itself
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
December 04 2012 06:08 GMT
#514
On December 03 2012 22:06 dezi wrote:
I'd like to hear feedback on this one.

Holy hell dude, haven't seen you in forever!

I'm worried the rush distances on your map are really long, with the way the pathing is set up, maybe consider replacing the destructible rocks with rock towers? Looks pretty cool overall though, hope to see you make a comeback.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
December 04 2012 08:50 GMT
#515
On December 04 2012 11:15 RFDaemoniac wrote:
I would put the healing well in a well-secured area, such as between the main and natural. The defenders advantage that this would give is allow you to retreat your units to the healing and then bring them back to the fight, not that they would be stronger in the fight itself


That was more or less my thinking, yes. Of course, I still need to confirm the exact specifics of how the shrine works.
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
December 04 2012 14:44 GMT
#516
In your map Coppermantis, an attacker could use the healing areas relatively easily in the early game, making pressure even more threatening against a player without map control (as opposed to say, a zerg with lings who maintains map control even during bunker pressure, cutting off reinforcements).

What about having an area that gives a buff that lasts a certain amount of time? i.e. gives +1 armor for 60 seconds? or +20 shields for 60 seconds? It encourages moving back and forth in a map, and doesn't make holding the area constantly important, just that you take it back before the minute is up (or go to the other one) and could be called a shield generator or something else silly. These ideas are definitely getting gimmicky, but might still be worth exploring.
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
December 04 2012 15:10 GMT
#517
On December 04 2012 23:44 RFDaemoniac wrote:
In your map Coppermantis, an attacker could use the healing areas relatively easily in the early game, making pressure even more threatening against a player without map control (as opposed to say, a zerg with lings who maintains map control even during bunker pressure, cutting off reinforcements).

What about having an area that gives a buff that lasts a certain amount of time? i.e. gives +1 armor for 60 seconds? or +20 shields for 60 seconds? It encourages moving back and forth in a map, and doesn't make holding the area constantly important, just that you take it back before the minute is up (or go to the other one) and could be called a shield generator or something else silly. These ideas are definitely getting gimmicky, but might still be worth exploring.


I moved the wells to a corner of the main and put XWTs on the hills already. It seems to be more sensible that way. I'm experimenting with other ideas as well as far as terrain goes.

Your shield generator idea is quite close to a custom game that I was working on a while back, where a team could hold a number of positions that gave a sort of buff for each one, such as increased armor, shielding or access to advanced units, similar to the big facilities in Planetside 2. However, I don't think that in particular would work out in a melee map.

SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 05:02:20
December 05 2012 05:01 GMT
#518
[image loading]


Maybe we should get an antisymmetric map jam going? If rotational maps can work surely antisymmetric maps can?
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
December 05 2012 05:30 GMT
#519
I'd be completely down to do an asymmetric map jam. Here's a Mapping Challenge from a year ago when they made asymmetrical maps for inspiration.
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 08:59:56
December 05 2012 08:38 GMT
#520
we should have another map jam in ~5 days if we want to hold to a "once a month" schedule

edit - looking at some of those assymetric maps, it is a mindfuck to try and "read" them like you can so easily w/ normal maps. funny stuff.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
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