EPTWork In Progress Melee Maps - Page 26
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin | ||
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RFDaemoniac
United States544 Posts
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
On December 03 2012 12:10 RFDaemoniac wrote: Quite, the textures I use are Kaldir (hots snow map) + one part of Nilfheim, and further Shakuras Hextiles and bricks as well as Ulaan Grunge.This is a much softer palette than you often see in maps, and I think it works very well. These are HotS assets, yes? The snow cliffs are HotS as well as some crystals, a lot of the doodats are still WoL. I have no idea if it's only me, but there are a lot of HotS doodats in the editor for me which simply don't work, it says it can't load the actors and you get errors ingame if you use them. Edit: I didn't want to make it too white, I hear the complaint with snow maps is often that they make you snow blind when playing on it for a while so I adjusted the fog and lightning to make it a bit more muddy snow. | ||
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Coppermantis
United States845 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ayDIu.jpg) I made a new map that has a main/nat/third setup much like the one I posted a while ago but with a significantly revamped middleground. I hope that it is an improvement; the area is a lot less choked now. I do worry about the position of the Healing Shrines; I may end up making them simply be watchtowers. As it stands, an army there would be pretty powerful with the high ground+ healing allowing them to hold that position and defend the natural and fourth pretty well. | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
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Coppermantis
United States845 Posts
On December 03 2012 15:04 SiskosGoatee wrote: Honestly, I thought the original Star Station layout was more interesting than this one. It had a lot of complex pathways which is what I like. I thought that it was interesting as well, but this one seems more balanced and efficient. I could be wrong though. I can always make this one more varied, it's easier for me to add more than revamp an area that's too crowded. | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iAFc7.jpg) 1: Yap, it's a 2width ramp. 2: Yap, it's a hots map so this isn't an immediate problem 3: Yap, it has an inbase half natural 4: yap, it has a backdoor a la jungle basin 5: yap, the map is not symmetric. | ||
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zssII.jpg) I'd like to hear feedback on this one. | ||
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RFDaemoniac
United States544 Posts
@Siskos: I would like to see series on asymmetrical maps where players alternate which side they spawn on. I think this looks pretty wonky and could be fun to figure out, too. @Coppermatis: I think healing centers should be treated even more like gold bases are, i.e. they should be in corners so you have to give up map control in order to use them. Or they can act as an area where you can send your units when they are injured instead of letting them die. Putting one in the main base could be interesting to this end, particularly if it has a very slow regen effect. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
@Coppermatis: I think healing centers should be treated even more like gold bases are, i.e. they should be in corners so you have to give up map control in order to use them. Or they can act as an area where you can send your units when they are injured instead of letting them die. Putting one in the main base could be interesting to this end, particularly if it has a very slow regen effect. I think it depends on whether they give a combat advantage. If they're only useful in between battles I'd say they're fine to have in the middle, except maybe for PvP if they can heal Protoss HP which won't heal at all while away from the tower. Unlike gold bases, I'd guess they can switch hands quite quickly like watchtowers. I didn't know there were healing towers. Those are built into hots or are they custom? I've been thinking some incentive for players to have map control would be good for the game so long as it isn't too gimmicky or un-starcrafty. I don't think healing towers quite fulfill that, though. Something which can be fought over and captured instantly, gives a passive advantage but not a positional advantage (the map maker can decide how easy they are to hold,) and is something you want to be holding as much as possible throughout all points in the game, so as to encourage players fighting over map control earlier on. Currently I see it like this: 1. Bases in the middle give an economic advantage, which is an advantage you'd always want. Unfortunately they aren't fought over much because it takes a lot of money and time to take one, and it takes a long time to pay for itself, so you won't go for one unless you think you can hold it for a while. This doesn't really help to encourage fighting over map control throughout the game. 2. Watchtowers are instantly capturable and can switch hands frequently. Unfortunately, they are positional, favoring the player who already has them, and they also don't give a passive sort of advantage where a player would be encouraged to move out or else the opponent would get ahead from holding them. 3. Healing wells I guess work like watchtowers so they can switch hands, but they might share some of the same problems in that they are positional and only help you when you're already having an action-packed game. They don't help turn a passive game into an action-packed game, which is more what SC2 needs. I think it's weird to have something in starcraft which gives you income that doesn't come from the resources on the map, so something like "hold watchtower and earn minerals," doesn't really make sense although that would work better than any of these. Maybe some kind of production boost like a channeled (constant, not energy-based, so every second you hold it counts) targeted chrono boost you could use on any of your buildings would work, but it might be kinda gimmicky or seem out of place in starcraft. Still, I think healing wells are better than both central bases and watchtowers when it comes to encouraging players to fight over map control, so I welcome the addition. Could mean more mutas as well, which is probably a good thing. Maybe we could have mana wells as well. Actually, I want to see waygates so we can adjust the travel distances on maps in crazy ways and break the barriers of geometry. I wasn't very hopeful about being able to use anything like that in SC2 but after seeing Arkenoid yesterday, maybe there's a possibility to do more crazy stuff in the proleague map pool. | ||
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Coppermantis
United States845 Posts
I do like the idea of putting the Shrines in mains, though. It adds a nice earlygame defenders advantage (also giving a buff to Stim before medivacs) but it might invalidate rushes like 6pools depending on placement. Might not be a horrible thing though. | ||
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Fatam
1986 Posts
b/c of this dilemma I think the healing wells will be more of an out-of-combat thing. | ||
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RFDaemoniac
United States544 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On December 03 2012 22:06 dezi wrote: I'd like to hear feedback on this one. Holy hell dude, haven't seen you in forever! I'm worried the rush distances on your map are really long, with the way the pathing is set up, maybe consider replacing the destructible rocks with rock towers? Looks pretty cool overall though, hope to see you make a comeback. | ||
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Coppermantis
United States845 Posts
On December 04 2012 11:15 RFDaemoniac wrote: I would put the healing well in a well-secured area, such as between the main and natural. The defenders advantage that this would give is allow you to retreat your units to the healing and then bring them back to the fight, not that they would be stronger in the fight itself That was more or less my thinking, yes. Of course, I still need to confirm the exact specifics of how the shrine works. | ||
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RFDaemoniac
United States544 Posts
What about having an area that gives a buff that lasts a certain amount of time? i.e. gives +1 armor for 60 seconds? or +20 shields for 60 seconds? It encourages moving back and forth in a map, and doesn't make holding the area constantly important, just that you take it back before the minute is up (or go to the other one) and could be called a shield generator or something else silly. These ideas are definitely getting gimmicky, but might still be worth exploring. | ||
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Coppermantis
United States845 Posts
On December 04 2012 23:44 RFDaemoniac wrote: In your map Coppermantis, an attacker could use the healing areas relatively easily in the early game, making pressure even more threatening against a player without map control (as opposed to say, a zerg with lings who maintains map control even during bunker pressure, cutting off reinforcements). What about having an area that gives a buff that lasts a certain amount of time? i.e. gives +1 armor for 60 seconds? or +20 shields for 60 seconds? It encourages moving back and forth in a map, and doesn't make holding the area constantly important, just that you take it back before the minute is up (or go to the other one) and could be called a shield generator or something else silly. These ideas are definitely getting gimmicky, but might still be worth exploring. I moved the wells to a corner of the main and put XWTs on the hills already. It seems to be more sensible that way. I'm experimenting with other ideas as well as far as terrain goes. Your shield generator idea is quite close to a custom game that I was working on a while back, where a team could hold a number of positions that gave a sort of buff for each one, such as increased armor, shielding or access to advanced units, similar to the big facilities in Planetside 2. However, I don't think that in particular would work out in a melee map. | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6dWlC.jpg) Maybe we should get an antisymmetric map jam going? If rotational maps can work surely antisymmetric maps can? | ||
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RFDaemoniac
United States544 Posts
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Fatam
1986 Posts
edit - looking at some of those assymetric maps, it is a mindfuck to try and "read" them like you can so easily w/ normal maps. funny stuff. | ||
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