I like how in this map it's not like 1-2 neutral bases are contested but after your third you literally decide, do I want the left three bases or the right three bases. And both halfs are very different yet I don't see any clear advantages generally speaking, so it depends on your style/race/strategy what you want to do and which side to grab.
Very nice adaptation and good execution as always, would love to see it being played in ESV Weekly.
One of the problems I see with this map is that Terran and Protoss can effectively "checkmate" a Zerg player with the fourth base. Zerg will always take their fourth first, and if the Terran or Protoss just expands in the same direction the rush distances are so short that they can cripple the zerg's new expand while easily defending their own.
I liked this one in BW but not sure if it actually plays out that good in SC2 - might 4ths might be to close nearby - would give it a shot though. Thx for publishing on EU already
On July 27 2012 19:13 Yonnua wrote: One of the problems I see with this map is that Terran and Protoss can effectively "checkmate" a Zerg player with the fourth base. Zerg will always take their fourth first, and if the Terran or Protoss just expands in the same direction the rush distances are so short that they can cripple the zerg's new expand while easily defending their own.
Yeah, I was gonna comment on this too. It seems that zergs always get shafted in this style of symmetry, because it's very hard to make a map like this where you can expand away from your opponent. The opponent can always just expand the same way and shrink the rush distance to essentially zero.
I don't think that's a problem. For the fourth Zerg doesn't have to commit to one. They can easily take one on both sides and then abandon one if it gets in trouble or just start a hatch on the fourth they did't take the moment they see toss/terra trying to expand towards them.
On July 28 2012 01:16 Ragoo wrote: I don't think that's a problem. For the fourth Zerg doesn't have to commit to one. They can easily take one on both sides and then abandon one if it gets in trouble or just start a hatch on the fourth they did't take the moment they see toss/terra trying to expand towards them.
I agree, I think it will work a bit like cloud kingdom in that way. It would be a problem if it was the 3rd but its not too bad for the 4th. Incidentally Nullcurrent already did a remake of odd eye but didn't release it.
Terran PFs are going to be super strong at those bottom left corner bases, especially the corner. otherwise, this map looks amazing. very well put together!
Sort of a standard treatment but it still looks quite good. I'd like it better if there was smaller (or no) lowground grass path that loops around the tower below the SW highground pods.
They don't really have to be exactly the same, just need to have the same # of "back" or "far away" mineral patches. 2 back patches per base seems to be the most common setup.
Cool map, although I think the excess/spread of all those protoss decals is kind of distracting and isn't pretty. Maybe that's just me though.
On July 28 2012 04:13 NewSunshine wrote: I like how all the mineral lines are exactly the same :D
Great observation haha, I didn't even notice until now.
About the map: I love the creative way that it has "circle syndrome" but you choose which way and then each player gets a cluster of 3 bases. The top right are all lowground with fewer entrances and the bottom left are highground with more entrances in general. I can't wait to see how it plays out!
To comment on the discussion earlier, I don't think that Zerg will have too hard of a time taking the fourth. It would be nearly impossible for T/P to take the fourth near the zerg at that point because the distance would be too close that the game would end before the base could be held.
Bumping this because it's today's map on Cartographer! ...that is if the 1.5 patch issues get sorted out. Otherwise it'll be next week!
Ideally though Timetwister will be joining me at 3pm PST on twitch.tv/ignproleague to talk about this map and map-making in general! Cross your fingers!
I keep looking at this and imagining it without the protoss decals and it looks so much better. Keep the large tiling in the mains with the teal outlining though cuz that looks good. You would probably have to do some texturing or something at the other bases as they would look a tad plain then, but still.
Well, already, there's something wierd about the junction between the natural and the third... that tight bridge. What I'm saying is that in ZvP if Z decides to take an early third (95% of the time) and P decides to do a timing push with sentries (75% of the time) and places 2 FFs on that bridge, suddenly it's really hard to defend. It's kind of similar to Entombed Valley where there is only a tight ridge that separates de third from the natural, in my opinion whatever links those two bases should generally be larger ( 3 FFs imo ).
The rest of the map is fine. I like the circle thingies . Looks like south from the natural there's a potential 4th or 5th base, on a high ground, seems interesting from Terran to make slow pushes on it towards Zerg's natural, just like Ohana LE (but not into the third). I like the paths that Terran can take to drop into the main base (there are 2 paths, unlike some bad maps that only have 1 or even non) and/or into the natural and third. Really neat placement.
I really like this map because of combination of gross and natur with sci-fi grey and stone landscape. Here are my suggestions to this map:
1. Replace that dark-cyan line divider between gross and grey textures with something different. Something like this (photoshoped):
2. Remove cyan protoss decals and add more neon and sci-fi elements as doodads and decorations around grey zones
3. Make gross texture more smooth and probably A BIT brighter. Right now there is a problem, which is similar to Yeonsu first textures, which were very sharp and hard for eyes. .
4. Add glowing cyan walls to the main and all grey bases too.