[MOD] High Ground Advantage - Page 2

On May 08 2012 01:02 moskonia wrote:
I think chances in an E-sport is just dumb, you should try to figure something new, not copy from BW. If you want to play BW go play it, but if you want to play SC2 you should think of something else, like -1 range to those hitting high ground units (this I think is the best thing to do).

On May 08 2012 04:35 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
ok, i try 53 % and i don't like it. It looks too much like the original. The players still cannot have a solid defensif position.

I change my map, units on the low ground hit only 10%. Its more extrem but i like extrem exemple to see what is the difference.

name: 6m hyg HA Cloud Kingdom LE

On May 08 2012 06:24 EatThePath wrote:
I thought it'd be really cool if there was an audio cue for misses that was distinct for different types of fire. Like a marine shot miss would sound like a bullet whiz in an FPS. And a marauder grenade miss would sound like a whoosh. Is it just me, or would that not be epic?

On May 08 2012 13:53 Chargelot wrote:
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That is my opinion of the sudden "lets make SC2 into SC:BW2" opinion floating around. There are a lot of things to consider when you want to change something like this, everything from late game upgrades being different to unit movement speed, map sizes, damage, DPS, health, etc. To simply say "lets take one thing that kinda worked in BW, and sorta apply it to SC2 in a different way" is like saying "if these wheels work on a car, they'll work on a commercial airliner as landing gear".

This isn't Brood War, guys. Those days are over, or at the very least, they're bleeding out. When the Blizzard dev team decided to change this between games, it's not like they said "fuck that, too hard to code." They sat down, talked about why it would work and why it wouldn't, crunched numbers, and conceptualized it and its alternatives. Does an entire team of professional developers always get every detail right? No, absolutely not. But needless to say, every other detail somehow links back into this one. Every detail is in some way related to most or all other details.

The problem with the FRB idea in and of itself is that it neglects this idea. Unit cost is based on income, which helps (read: does not determine, only helps to) determine how "useful" a unit is. What kind of abilities it has, how much food it uses, etc***. Yeah, little price changes have occurred over the years, but nothing dramatic. If they halved the cost of the marine, would they not also halve its effectiveness? FRB can only work because it exploits the singular overarching flaw in the 8m2g logic, which is to strap the player onto a rocket and blow him out of the early game.

*** The cost of a unit both determines its abilities and is determined by a unit's ability, depending on which way you look at it. If you want to change the effectiveness of a unit (on a large scale), you must also change its cost. If you wish to change the cost of a unit (on a large scale), you must also change its effectiveness. The 300 mineral marine must kick serious ass, and the 50 mineral Thor must shoot blanks.

On May 08 2012 16:19 nekoconeco wrote:
Nice work. Shame this thread is becoming what it is when it should be discussing the mod at hand rather than the validity of the FRB mod.

Is this possible? (from the FRB mod thread)

On May 08 2012 16:34 MavercK wrote:


fairly ridiculous opinion/post.
the point of these mods are to try. see what happens. if there's glaring problems they can be addressed and the idea progresses.

the main reason Blizzard removed stuff like random miss chance is because it's not obvious. they dumbed the game down so new players know immediately. they dont need to learn about miss chance or anything. it's immediately obvious. it's fine. from their perspective. not from mine unfortunately. i think the cost is too great for this "clarity" Blizzard so desire in their games.

On May 08 2012 18:06 Chargelot wrote:


The reason doesn't matter. It's completely invalid. It has nothing to do with my point. It's a part of the chain of logic. Break a link, and what happens? The chain falls apart. Whether or not you agree with the way it is, all of the logic of the game ties into itself at every stage. If you change one thing like this, it can create subtle or extremely dramatic changes. But eventually you'll notice a trend of the game breaking down and not quite working the way it should. Units will be blamed as being OP or UP. Spells will be too strong from low ground, nonspell casters will look pathetic by comparison. The entire game is balanced on the fact that units will always hit. Again, it doesn't matter if you like it or not, but it's the reality of the situation. You'd be better off making the whole game from scratch.

Also, as always Urashimakt, if you want me to throw this up on EU I will.

On May 08 2012 20:48 urashimakt wrote:

Nah, this is completely publicly available. I'll probably put the actually mods as a downloadable link in the OP after it's made sure there's no hiding bugs in them.

I probably should give you the latest Bx Monobattle update though. It's been a bit.

On May 09 2012 00:04 Chargelot wrote:

Yeah man, send it my way and I'll get it updated. Don't take my criticism too harshly here. I'm all for testing anything. But it's important to understand what I was saying. This changes everything at one level or another. If the idea were to be adopted by Blizzard, they would need to change so much more than just this. Everything mechanical would be tweaked by some percentage, whether that amounts to a small change or a large change, it's still a bigger change than high ground advantage.

On May 08 2012 20:46 urashimakt wrote:
High Ground Ranger is available on Battle.net.

High Ground Defender will be available when Battle.net is done with maintenance.

Both are sister mods of High Ground Advantage and allow you to see how the most requested advantages would pan out.

High Ground, Anakin has been put on hold indefinitely.