• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:59
CET 11:59
KST 19:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage14Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery BW General Discussion [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread!
Tourneys
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 14546 users

[M] (2) Back to Back

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-31 04:07:32
February 09 2012 18:24 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Back to Back
등을 맞대고
version 1.37
Published on the European and North-American servers
152*168

[image loading]

I completely reworked Back to Back. This is not a special or anniversary edition, this is the way it should have been from the beginning. I made a new thread because I couldn't edit the former thread.

Distances between bases are now tighter and the 3rd expansion is easier to take. The path to the main and natural is wider so it's easier to attack from the ground. Check the changelog for the full list of changes.

The concept of the map is the vertical distance is short for ground harass but the distance to attack is longer since you have to go through the 3rd base. Because of the grass the Xelnaga tower is essential to the attacker, but is exposed to the short middle path.

The main and natural are back to back. Defending two bases is easier when they're close to each other. Quickly the mineral lines become an enclave and the production buildings become more exposed, so it's harder to do tons of damage to the workers and favors softer harass to buildings.

Good luck and have fun !

Analyzer : + Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]


Pictures : + Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


Changelog : + Show Spoiler +

--- v1.37
  • Added water near the grass and between the gold and the 5th
  • Added a custom minimap
  • Minor tweaks of textures, doodads and the pathing layer

--- v1.34
  • Grass patches are now hollow except small ones
  • Fixed water and removed unused squares
  • Fixed textures

--- v1.33
  • The lighting has been remade
  • The main and natural are further on the sides (the vertical distance remains the same)
  • The natural is smaller
  • The 3rd expansion is closer (closer than Dual Sight now)
  • The path to the main is wider
  • The path alongside the main is shorter and wider
  • The gold is easier to attack
  • Destructible rocks in the gold
  • More rocks to show you can't drop behind the gold expansion
  • More room between the 4th and the back of the main
  • Less obstacles in the middle of the map
  • Small path to blink through the lakes in the middle
  • More space to wall the ramp
  • Different rocks placement for the forge fast expand
  • Neutral depot

--- v1.22
  • I Made the corridor along the main wider
  • The middle route is now a bit shorter
  • I tweaked the lighting

--- v1.16
  • Changed the high grass
  • Made the natural smaller
  • Lighting is less bright

--- v1.14
  • Lighting changes and tone mapping
  • Fixed a column in the middle
--- v1.11
  • Switched back the Gold and 3rd expansion like it was before
  • Reduced the cliff behind the 3rd expansion.
  • Made the 4th a bit larger and with a larger ramp
  • There's a better preview picture in the custom map list
--- v1.6
  • Switched the Gold and 3rd expansion
  • Cosmetic changes
--- v1.5
  • I reduced the area to blink to the main from backdoor
  • You can't blink from the 4th expansion to the main without an observer
  • Cosmetic changes
--- v1.4
  • The Main is bigger
  • There's less water in the middle so the middle path is a bit shorter
  • The 4th expansion on the side of the main now has 1 ramp and is smaller
  • Main and Natural have 8 minerals, other expansions have 7
  • Cosmetic changes
  • I fixed the Xel Naga and rich minerals to work with the retail version
--- Beta Phase 1
  • I fixed the gas in the golden expansion
---
  • I removed several cliffs or made them unpathable.
  • I moved the main ramp a bit closer to the natural.
  • The choke is narrower.
  • The main has a bit more space but not too much.
  • The 3rd expansion's entrance is wider.
  • The gold expansions ramps are narrower.
  • I removed the 2 useless towers.


Previous versions : + Show Spoiler +

--- v1.36
[image loading]

--- v1.33
[image loading]

--- v1.22
[image loading]

--- Older versions in the previous thread
godly-cheese
Profile Joined November 2011
United States67 Posts
February 09 2012 20:12 GMT
#2
This map reminds me of BW for some reason. I'll be definitely trying this.

Off-topic, but how did you get the color saturation so high in game? I love how the colors don't look so faded out.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10627 Posts
February 09 2012 20:54 GMT
#3
the third seems very awkwardly placed... the gold is in too small of an area, making pfs way to OP.

map is also way too open.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
February 09 2012 20:59 GMT
#4
Yeah I don't like the desaturated colors nor playing on dark maps. I like when you can play in the afternoon and you're not forced to draw the curtains.

By default, lighting is desaturated but textures are actually saturated. In the lighting window->colorization untick Colorize, put Hue, Saturation and lightness to 0.0, and contrast to 0.0 too.
Then the goal is too have saturated light colors in Global, Key, Fill and Back and bright enough so you can lower Tone Mapping->Exposure as close to 1.0 as possible.

Since the game desaturates maps by default, Blizzard cheats and oversaturates the units and building textures to make them stand out. So if you leave a high exposure value it will overburn units and buildings colors.
Also having an exposure of 1.0 makes you map look the same in Low graphics and Medium/High/Ultra/Extreme.

Also up the bloom threshold so the bright parts don't bleed or look greasy.
godly-cheese
Profile Joined November 2011
United States67 Posts
February 09 2012 21:58 GMT
#5
On February 10 2012 05:59 chuky500 wrote:
Yeah I don't like the desaturated colors nor playing on dark maps. I like when you can play in the afternoon and you're not forced to draw the curtains.

By default, lighting is desaturated but textures are actually saturated. In the lighting window->colorization untick Colorize, put Hue, Saturation and lightness to 0.0, and contrast to 0.0 too.
Then the goal is too have saturated light colors in Global, Key, Fill and Back and bright enough so you can lower Tone Mapping->Exposure as close to 1.0 as possible.

Since the game desaturates maps by default, Blizzard cheats and oversaturates the units and building textures to make them stand out. So if you leave a high exposure value it will overburn units and buildings colors.
Also having an exposure of 1.0 makes you map look the same in Low graphics and Medium/High/Ultra/Extreme.

Also up the bloom threshold so the bright parts don't bleed or look greasy.


How would I do all of this ingame, but not on the map editor? Would I have to something in "Variables.txt"?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
godly-cheese
Profile Joined November 2011
United States67 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-09 23:23:53
February 09 2012 23:23 GMT
#6
Published on NA server! - [image loading]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-10 15:03:52
February 10 2012 14:59 GMT
#7
Thanks godly-cheese for publishing it on the NA server !

And now the map has a korean name ! How cool is that

FlaShFTW, what's awkward about the 3rd ? The idea is it's placed at an equal distance between the main choke and the far end of the Xel naga tower vision. This way when you see the opponent coming you have just the right amount of time to move your army and defend your 3rd. And this distance is also roughly equal to the distance from the end of the Xel naga tower vision to the edge of the main base, so the attacker can choose to siege/harass the side of the base instead.

Regarding the gold, I've just fixed it so you can't build 2 planetary fortresses in the gold. But actually PFs aren't OP because you can attack the gold from the low ground with most ranged units. The purpose of such a gold base is if the defender isn't already on the high ground when the gold is attacked, it's hard for him to climb up the ramp and he has to fight from the low ground. The way the attacker's units focus in priority the PF over the defender's units makes it hard to attack a PF so this design helps keeping the PF and the defender's army at different places, making it easier to tell your units which one to attack. If the defender were easily between the PF and the opponent's army it'd be too easy to defend.

regarding the lighting settings, well the desaturation and tone mapping only happen in medium settings and up so if you're in low it's not desaturated. But lighting is usually fixed with settings like exposure and color correction so it's darker in low mode. I'm afraid you can't change the lighting settings of any map in the game other than picking the low graphics mode or editing it.

Baseic
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands310 Posts
February 10 2012 16:11 GMT
#8
I do not like the fact that you have a gold as standard 4th.
Golds are never nice in my opinion, but if they are in, they should be there as a more risky, but more rewarding option, not as a forced expo.
Etc.
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
February 10 2012 22:02 GMT
#9
I've chosen to keep the golden expansion because after the game MMA vs Feast it was pretty obvious mules would be fixed on gold. The change is now announced for patch 1.4.3.

There's a trend in most macro games where there's a pause in the flow of the expansions after 3 bases. Players stay on 3 bases, max their armies at 200/200, make units and upgrades for a while and then they make a 4th and a 5th at the same time. Once armies have fought there's a big downtime where players recover and there's nothing special to watch as a spectator. Having a gold as a standard 4th helps smoothing the expansion timings because you gain something if you keep expanding. And you defend it along with the 3rd so it stays in the flow of the game. If the gold was risky the player taking it would usually be the one already in the lead so I don't want to mechanically help accentuate a lead.

Also keep in mind there are only 5 mineral lines per player on Back to Back while most 2-player maps have 6. On a 5-base map, players would likely make their last but one expansion on a gold anyways, chosing to have the edge now rather than taking it when there's nothing else left to mine.
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
February 26 2012 03:18 GMT
#10
I decided to tweak the map a bit more. Grass patches are now hollow except small ones. I know it doesn't change how it works but it was different for the sake of being different and actually hampered vision.
I also removed unused squares of water and fixed the textures around the natural's gases. I hope you enjoy.

I'll update the picture when I get time.
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
February 28 2012 12:08 GMT
#11
Hollow grass patches ? What do you mean ?
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
February 28 2012 12:21 GMT
#12
That gif is tripping me out Can you include some analyzerpics?
KCCO!
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
February 28 2012 14:11 GMT
#13
The name is throwing me off tbh. It should be the Plains of Krydon or something
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
February 28 2012 16:16 GMT
#14
i stared at that gif for minutes...
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
February 28 2012 20:54 GMT
#15
Here are few mapanalyzer pictures + Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]

Grass patches are all in range of the Xelnaga towers' vision and there are a few obstacles in the open areas that weren't computed by the map analyzer.
Hollow grass patches is the standard in starcraft 2, it's when you have a closed line of sight blockers instead of a full patch. Now I just have the outline of the big patch.

I also corrected a part of the pathing layer that got deleted and a few textures.
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 21:32:05
February 28 2012 21:30 GMT
#16
Oh i see. Isn't the map veeeeery open ?

Edit : use the pathing brush for obstacle doodads to be recognized by the analyser.
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 22:10:01
February 28 2012 22:01 GMT
#17
I don't really care about the map analyzer pictures, the global openness value doesn't really mean anything. The only value that means something is the local openness, the openness of where you fight. If you fight in an open area it's just open, "very open" doesn't correspond to anything. Overall the map isn't very open because most fights occur near bases and that's where the map is tighter.

Also the open areas have grass patches that act as obstacles in the middle of a battle, it is an element of gameplay like ramps. There are also doodads that mapanalyzer didn't consider. If I painted the few doodads of the open areas it would mess with the colors and remove a big part of the pink parts. That would break the use of the colors.

ihasaKAROT asked for these pictures so I posted them but honestly in my opinion mapanalyzer would need to have the complete set of basic features to be useful, like unpathable doodads and sight blockers.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
March 01 2012 02:43 GMT
#18
For some reason I think the golds would be a more comfortable 4th (as they are the only 4th) if they were on the lower ground.
Beautiful map.
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
March 01 2012 14:16 GMT
#19
The good thing about the gold base layout in my opinion is you can't make a CC or a macro hatch next to the rocks and start mining before you break them. So protoss are not unfavored.

Also the base on the opposite side as the 3rd can also act as a 4th, depending on if you're attacking or defending. In the same way as on Taldarim Altar close positions where you may want to take the base that doesn't have rocks.

chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-31 04:27:02
March 31 2012 04:21 GMT
#20
I updated the map, now there are small water ponds between the gold and the 5th. It should make army placement more interresting in the middle and near the xel naga tower. I painted the doodads for the map analyzer and the openness value jumped from 4.76 to 3.81 ! It just show how reliable this value is.

I also added a custom minimap that's a lot prettier than the default one.
[image loading]

Analyzer pictures : + Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]


The OP is now updated to reflect the changes.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
KCM Race Survival
19:00
Season 4 Week 5
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1206
LiquipediaDiscussion
The PondCast
19:00
Episode 117
CranKy Ducklings27
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko314
OGKoka 180
ProTech180
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2131
Jaedong 494
Mini 392
Soulkey 233
EffOrt 215
Light 185
firebathero 171
Larva 149
Snow 149
ZerO 143
[ Show more ]
Rush 113
Last 109
Pusan 86
Stork 83
Hyun 76
Killer 60
Barracks 58
ToSsGirL 29
Shinee 22
soO 21
Shine 18
Hm[arnc] 17
sorry 17
Aegong 15
Noble 14
Terrorterran 13
Movie 12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever400
League of Legends
JimRising 334
Reynor101
Counter-Strike
fl0m3171
olofmeister824
shoxiejesuss441
allub171
kRYSTAL_7
Other Games
summit1g10164
crisheroes221
XaKoH 203
B2W.Neo147
Mew2King126
dupreeh99
ViBE59
syndereN51
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 14
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 33
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 7
• ChaeLyn 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV245
League of Legends
• Jankos1526
• Stunt686
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1h 1m
Lambo vs Shameless
Rogue vs uThermal
Percival vs YoungYakov
TBD vs GgMaChine
OSC
5h 1m
OSC
12h 1m
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
1d 1h
OSC
1d 3h
OSC
1d 12h
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
1d 23h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
2 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
2 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
3 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-11
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.