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I wanted to try something similar to what the moderators do over on battle.net when they ask about taking thirds, destructible rocks, and other gameplay features to let players give their perspectives on particular parts of the game so others may draw from it. I wanted to do the same thing, but for map-making. This is mostly, and specifically for map-makers to give their thoughts so newer map-makers and mabye visitors can see how we operate.
While I feel there is some helpful Q&A in the Simple Questions/Simple Answers thread, it doesn't give a solid foundation that will help you obtain the mentality of a map-maker. There are also several guides, as provided by Barrin that talk about simple things in map-making, but again there is nothing there that map-makers have composed for the public. So, each week I will post a Map Design thread, with a specific topic for all map-makers to give their perspectives on, but also insightful suggestions, methods, and ideas.
when I have made several threads, I will make a global thread containing all the topics that hopefully will give map-maker insight in different areas of map-making and the editor for all who are interested in becoming a map-maker. Without further ado... let's get started on our first map-making topic.
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Understanding: Concepts
• What is your definition of a map concept?
• How do you come up with a concept?
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
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• What is your definition of a map concept?
Other people might consider map concepts more broad, but to me a map concept is the starting point on which you build the rest of your map around. Sometimes a concept can be simply aesthetic, but usually its best to start with a unique terrain element that would be interesting to play on. I like to think that on a completed and excellent map, you shouldn't be able to tell what the concept is/was.
• How do you come up with a concept?
Usually just messing around in the editor, not working on a particular map, and messing with proportions. If I find something that looks interesting I start thinking of ways that might make it not work in a map (things like towers, tanks, flying units come to mind).
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
Usually I briefly sketch it on a piece of paper and start figuring out how expansions can be placed to best interact with it. Then it is just quickly creating a rough copy in the editor, followed by evening out proportions.
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
Typically for me the concept is the groundwork for the layout and the aesthetics are almost entirely independent.
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Well, I've still got a ways to go, so I don't know how insightful my answers can be, but I feel like I've made a good deal of progress so far, and so a newer mapper might have something to gain from what I say. Here goes.
On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• What is your definition of a map concept?
For me, a map concept can be split into two halves, being the obvious 2 aspects, layout and aesthetics. I find that regardless of aesthetic work, a layout can have a certain feel to it, almost like a soul. If made correctly, the areas of a map will end up feeling like the different rooms in a house, with a different reason for a player to want to go to each and every section. The aesthetics take this feeling, and extend it, so that it may be fully expressed as intended. I usually take a separate inspiration for each, and focus my efforts on each one as I do them. Almost sort of kinda obvious, really.
On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• How do you come up with a concept?
Oh, I just finished explaining this. Crap. But yeah, inspiration will come from a few different places, from scenes around me, scenes in pictures, scenes in movies, even scenes in other maps, but those are just for the aesthtics. For layouts, I'll think of different arrangements that seem like they'd play good, like for example a certain layout for a main/natural/third setup, thinking back on well established maps as well.
On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
As for aesthetics, I usually have to come up with the appropriate textures beforehand, as I'm just now getting into mixing textures in a way that looks good, but most of it is just running with whatever starts working, upon experimentation of course. As for the layout, the bounds help to influence its status as a rush, medium, or macro map, as well as the condensedness of the pathways. However, I've found that compressing the pathways, in order to make a "larger" map with smaller bounds, can make tower placement tricky. Once pathways achieve a certain arrangement, a tower that reveals that area can give a lot more information than usual. Especially if an expansion sits there.
On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
Well, what can I say? A concept, and its underlying inspiration, will drive me to make the map in the first place, and guide my efforts in every aspect until I reach the last place. If I don't have the concept in the front of my mind the entire time, I lose interest in the progress of the map. My inspiration for a map is everything, it's where the passion for my maps is rooted. I feel that if I can successfully render my initial vision, I've succeeded with the map. I take the lessons to be learnt from the layout, and apply it to my future layouts, and sort of move on to my next project.
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On January 05 2012 09:18 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well, I've still got a ways to go, so I don't know how insightful my answers can be, but I feel like I've made a good deal of progress so far, and so a newer mapper might have something to gain from what I say. Here goes. On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• What is your definition of a map concept?
For me, a map concept can be split into two halves, being the obvious 2 aspects, layout and aesthetics. I find that regardless of aesthetic work, a layout can have a certain feel to it, almost like a soul. If made correctly, the areas of a map will end up feeling like the different rooms in a house, with a different reason for a player to want to go to each and every section. The aesthetics take this feeling, and extend it, so that it may be fully expressed as intended. I usually take a separate inspiration for each, and focus my efforts on each one as I do them. Almost sort of kinda obvious, really. On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• How do you come up with a concept?
Oh, I just finished explaining this. Crap. But yeah, inspiration will come from a few different places, from scenes around me, scenes in pictures, scenes in movies, even scenes in other maps, but those are just for the aesthtics. For layouts, I'll think of different arrangements that seem like they'd play good, like for example a certain layout for a main/natural/third setup, thinking back on well established maps as well. On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
As for aesthetics, I usually have to come up with the appropriate textures beforehand, as I'm just now getting into mixing textures in a way that looks good, but most of it is just running with whatever starts working, upon experimentation of course. As for the layout, the bounds help to influence its status as a rush, medium, or macro map, as well as the condensedness of the pathways. However, I've found that compressing the pathways, in order to make a "larger" map with smaller bounds, can make tower placement tricky. Once pathways achieve a certain arrangement, a tower that reveals that area can give a lot more information than usual. Especially if an expansion sits there. On January 05 2012 07:59 IronManSC wrote:
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
Well, what can I say? A concept, and its underlying inspiration, will drive me to make the map in the first place, and guide my efforts in every aspect until I reach the last place. If I don't have the concept in the front of my mind the entire time, I lose interest in the progress of the map. My inspiration for a map is everything, it's where the passion for my maps is rooted. I feel that if I can successfully render my initial vision, I've succeeded with the map. I take the lessons to be learnt from the layout, and apply it to my future layouts, and sort of move on to my next project.
Well, I was thinking about posting my ideas, and then you said it better than I ever could. Honestly, a great post, and in general your thoughts align fairly closely with mine. I love all of your analogies, they make everything so easy to understand. Like the house one especially.
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just a fan stopping by, ironman.
you guys are awesome.
i spent my entire 15 yr old summer with the original campaign editor. i don't think i will get into the galaxy editor much... it would consume my life.
keep up the good work, perhaps one day i will learn more of this new editor... it is amazing...
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• What is your definition of a map concept?
A concept to me is the preface for making changes to a map. The best way to develop a long-standing map that has unique gameplay is to figure out what strategies you want it to encourage. For example, air play, static defense, harassment, and abusing high-ground are all concepts you can use. From there, adjusting the map to match it's concept can make it more fun and different from other maps.
• How do you come up with a concept?
I will pick a certain play-style that I want to encourage based on how I feel the current meta-game is. Like on Korhal Compound, I wanted to encourage using smaller armies and static defense/buildings. That's why a lot of the expansions have small entrances but are spread out (also so armies aren't as effective as drops). Additionally the center isn't great for engaging because of the highground around it, so players are encouraged to either split up their army or move around the edges of the map which is slower.
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
Figure out what it is that you're doing and then make the appropriate changes to your map.
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
Concept, imo, has nothing to do with aesthetics. If two maps are identical, whichever has better aesthetics wins. That's all there is to aesthetics to me, because eventually you can't rely on aesthetics to make a popular map (see: BelShir beach balance failure, Dual Sight balance failure, etc.). And as I explained earlier, the layout is directly based on the concept.
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• What is your definition of a map concept?
When I talk about a map's concept I am talking about:
The intended type of game flow desired through a specific set of terrain (gameplay) features.
These features can be anything and should be everything about the map. From the map's size, how many bases it has, how easy it is to sit on 3 bases, all the way down to whether the natural entrance has a ramp, whether there's LoS blockers in the main, whether there's a single watch tower in the center, one for each player, none at all, whether there's rocks blocking your third, if the natural is 8, 9, 10 or more spaces wide, and pretty much everything about the map.
Aspects of the game flow can be things like a "rush" or aggressive, low-tech oriented map (steppes of war, blistering sands, incineration zone, searing crater, xel'naga caverns), or a macro high tech oriented map (tal'darim altar, shakuras plateau), or a 3-base turtle map (calm before the storm, terminus) or something in between, or a simple map, or a complicated/technical map (kulas ravine, crossfire), or a map that encourages air play (scap station), or a map that encourages harass/runby/counterattack play, (there are many more ideas).... or a map that does a combination of these things... possibly at different stages of the game (start aggressive, end macro?).
Obviously, stronger terrain (gameplay) features tend to contribute more to the overall type of gameplay the map provides.
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To be clear, a map's concept is not how it actually plays out (game flow); a map's concept is how you meant for it to play out.
When you come close to what you meant to do, you had good execution. When you are farther from what you meant to do, you had worse execution. Not all map concepts are executed well, and a poorly executed map concept poorly represents how good or bad that map concept is.
• How do you come up with a concept?
It can come from anything. Sometimes it just comes to me, sometimes I have to have the idea in the back of my mind for months. Sometimes I have to stop trying to come up with one for a while.
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
Very meticulously and carefully with hundreds of minor-moderate revisions.
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
I don't let it anymore for tournament-focused maps.
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When you come close to what you meant to do, you had good execution. When you are farther from what you meant to do, you had worse execution. Not all map concepts are executed well, and a poorly executed map concept poorly represents how good or bad that map concept is.
actually replace "meant to do" with "should have meant to do"
^^
Although a map concept deals with tangible map features, the map concept itself is intangible, abstract, arguably ambiguous, and therefore highly subjective.
However, not all map concepts are "optimal"; if you have a goal - for your map to be say, strategically deep, or appealing to the masses (two very different things btw) - then one map concept can be objectively better than another.
MAPMAKING IS FUN ISNT IT ^^
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To be clear, a map's concept is not how it actually plays out (game flow); a map's concept is how you meant for it to play out.
For me it is actually quite the opposite. When I start a new map, I have no idea what layout is going to look like or what I want it to play out. I just start building terrain somewhere, add more terrain around it, try to connect it in an interesting way, extend or crop map borders if neccessary. It is this process where alot of ideas are starting to pop up in my head. Similar to a brainstorming process.
As the map is slowly taking shape, I start to think about how it will play out. Where do you position your army? What attack paths are viable? And for defence? How do certain terrain features affect the gameplay? Then i continue tweaking problem areas until I am statisfied with the "concept"
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On January 07 2012 01:10 lefix wrote:Show nested quote +To be clear, a map's concept is not how it actually plays out (game flow); a map's concept is how you meant for it to play out. For me it is actually quite the opposite. When I start a new map, I have no idea what layout is going to look like or what I want it to play out. I just start building terrain somewhere, add more terrain around it, try to connect it in an interesting way, extend or crop map borders if neccessary. It is this process where alot of ideas are starting to pop up in my head. Similar to a brainstorming process. As the map is slowly taking shape, I start to think about how it will play out. Where do you position your army? What attack paths are viable? And for defence? How do certain terrain features affect the gameplay? Then i continue tweaking problem areas until I am statisfied with the "concept"
i guess we all have this idea of 'how it will play out', but have different approaches to achieve the end result. i start from the beginning with the concept, rather than your way; this way, most importantly i think, makes sure i dont end up designing a map very similar to someone else's. but you have alot of inherent originality and your maps have been great so far so i dont really think its a problem for you 
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On January 07 2012 01:10 lefix wrote:Show nested quote +To be clear, a map's concept is not how it actually plays out (game flow); a map's concept is how you meant for it to play out. For me it is actually quite the opposite. When I start a new map, I have no idea what layout is going to look like or what I want it to play out. I just start building terrain somewhere, add more terrain around it, try to connect it in an interesting way, extend or crop map borders if neccessary. It is this process where alot of ideas are starting to pop up in my head. Similar to a brainstorming process. As the map is slowly taking shape, I start to think about how it will play out. Where do you position your army? What attack paths are viable? And for defence? How do certain terrain features affect the gameplay? Then i continue tweaking problem areas until I am statisfied with the "concept"
Right, how you mean/meant for your map to play out can definitely change from the beginning to the end. It's actually very stupid to not (at least) consider alternatives. Did not mean to imply otherwise.
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• What is your definition of a map concept?
A general layout that I build a map around
• How do you come up with a concept?
I look at BW maps
• How do you apply your concept to your map?
Uhhh... I just put it in there
• In what ways does your concept impact the aesthetics and layout?
It IS my layout, doesn't affect the aesthetics whatsoever.
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EPT
