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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jy7BH.jpg)
Made By: Prometheus Version: 1.0 Uploaded: NA
Map Description: Your natural has 2 openings, 1 blocked by rocks. You have a choice of 3rds, each with its own risks. 2 Xel'Naga Towers watch over the center -- Holding these will be key to success.
Gold v. Bronze Level Replay of Ver. 0.9: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16535
Masters Level Replay of Ver. 0.1: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16441
Number of Bases: 12 (Regular) Number of Doodads: 1616 Playable Bounds: 144 x 144
Notable features of the map + Show Spoiler +- FFE capable - Can be walled off like Tal'Darim if not fast expanding - Choice of 3rds, each with its own risks - 2 base play will be very strong - ALL ramps are double wide
Images + Show Spoiler +
Bounds/Textures/Aesthetics + Show Spoiler +
Change Log + Show Spoiler +Version 1.0 - Ramps with rocks removed - Map boundaries increased to 144 x 144 - Doodad numbers increased Version 0.10 - Main bases now almost identically match each other (they are of a proper size now officially) - Main chokes decreased in size to match a single forcefield - Aesthetics work (it looks pretty! ![](/mirror/smilies/smile.gif) ) 0.7 (Yeah) - Main bases increased in size (now 25+ CC's) - Added 2 regular bases (underwater) - Changed Xel'Naga Towers to custom doodads/animation mixture to better fit mood of the map - Broke up area surrounding natural's entrance - All resource lines optimized - Third's resources redone to better appropriate space, removing the "cramped" feeling - Middle bases now have destructible rocks to open up even more if players feel like its too small to attack (this helps address PF's holding it) - Middle terrain between middle bases opened up to original width Comments and criticisms welcome
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It looks like a Total Annihilation map. I like it Good job.
Looks like the spaces between Main and third are not of the same sizes. I don't know if it changes really something. Maybe one is blinkable and not the other ?
I feal like the main is siegable from the 3rd. But i don't know. I'm just a low level player so maybe that's not the case/not important.
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I THINK that the spaces between the mains are the same, but that could be the doodads screwing with me.
I feel this is a very... er, aggro map, without a real long-term-macro focus. Loving the idea of the high-low-high leading into expansion, but that might be a little scary if you can get a nice FF to trap units there. Generally, I feel that zerg would have a problem with this map for its expansion spacing and the fact that they can't really exploit the terrain like t or p.
Just my two cents.
Edit: Is the middle a bit choaky, or is it just 2 am?
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The center base has a tower helping the enemy spot it and attack into it, making it an unlikely 3rd. The left hand edge base is really far away and there's zero cover between it and your natural. This will lead to a lot of 2base play, except maybe for zerg. There are a lot of ways you can work on this, and to really fix the problem it'll change the map a bit, so I won't tell you how you should do it since that's up to you, if you do. ^^
I really like the center but the middle path should be a little wider I think, otherwise it's too easy for a tank based terran to control everything with the towers.
Speaking of which, a PF in the center bases will be almost impossible to dislodge. Maybe a portion of the tree line can become destructible rocks?
The mains need more space as well, and I think the natural could use a little more standing room as well.
It does look like TA <3.
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The main is not siegable from the 3rd - I made it with that in mind specifically. I think part of my problem with how small the mains are revolves around my map bounds -- but I"m trying to work within them before resorting to going larger. Spaces are the same (or else I ended up with that 1 cell off mistake )
I knew that this map was not very long-term-macro focuses, and so I have attempted to address that by adding 2 more bases (1 per side respectively). It also helps to solve deadspace issues there (but kind decreases the aesthetics at the moment until I can get happy there--see below for the pic) -- I'm thinking of dropping these bases down 1 more in height (would look like they're underwater, so aesthetically that could be interesting) -- and helps solved the height issue with the 5th base (natural is still 1 height change higher as it stands now)
The Xel'Naga Towers have been repositioned to take away easy vision of the opponents middle base. As for the middle pathway - having played a game where the opponent maxed on thors (my friend and I were playing it and it was good to see the issue) I watched as all the thors were able to move through quite easily without having to worry about the terrain--hence why I added the unpathable doodads there (Trees/underbrush) to restrict movement
PF's are not overpowered in their current position I don't think. I was worried about it initially but having played against it, I found it a little easy to break due to the longer route needed to reinforce that base in particular (so positioning will definitely matter when hitting it) -- although I like the idea of breakable rocks to open that up, I'm just not at a point where I want to try that just yet until I see more games played.
I'm trying to address the issue of the mains and naturals having more room.... not sure if I"m hitting the mark just yet on that (in fact I know I'm not).
Anyway, here is the experimental version as it stands (I call it experiment because I don't release these particular ones to the public)
Changes - Mineral Lines optimized at all bases - Space added to Main and Natural - route to 3rds through center opened up to give that base more "area" - LOS blockers added between nat's open ramp and 3rd's open route - 2 Bases Added - Doodads reduce by ~100
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United States9722 Posts
i don't like the high ground, low ground at your third and corner expos... i like your experimental one better than you current one because it makes it feel like there's more "movement" on your map. you have an ideal 4th now, whereas before, you could take a 4th, but it would be so hard to defend. the current 4th (12/6) would transition into a 5th and 6th.
However, map splitting is going to frequently occur here. maybe move the two center expos closer to the middle?
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I went ahead and opened the map up for public use under the title PanzerschreckTest. So you can try it out if you want.
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your Country52796 Posts
It looks like you would have to stretch across the whole map just to take a 4th.
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You have everything crammed against the edges of the map. Loosen things up a bit. The map has a restrictive feeling that makes me uncomfortable. I drew a little picture for you:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/znSfX.jpg)
I love that you have bases in the middle though. Thank you! It's good to see designs around here changing a little.
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The main is pretty small, imo at the very least it should be 25 but I prefer 35. Proportions seem to bit a bit extreme sometimes, like the area outside the nat where the LoS is is HUUGEE. Don't ever use flat main chokes please, it just sucks for PvP.
I like this map, it's not totally wacky but it has a very unqiue way of doing the expansions. The way you designed those outside bases is rly good. Hard to engage from ground and spread out far is nice design to discourage frontal attacks and encourage harrass/drops. You should think about encouraging harrass even more for example with highground behind bases or sth like that.
I don't know what to think about lovablemikey's changes. I don't hate them but they destroy what I just said about your base designs quite a bit.
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So I have done quite a bit of work and experimentation on the map. I think I have reached a new milestone with it perhaps. Both mains are now 25 cc's (although not perfectly the same.... I'm having trouble nailing that issue down). The HUGE LOS blockers have been removed in place of non-pathable terrain -- it forces you to choose between a smaller force attacking via the rock side or a larger force via the front (I am still playing with the proportions on this to get it just right). I went ahead and opened up the middle path because of this change. The Xel'Naga Towers are now custom and more befitting the map (it's fun!). I'm still playing with some other stuff - oh, finally finished optimizing all the resource lines --- its amazing what just rotating them can do for opening up space. Another note - which was a stroke of genius going to EatThePath - the tree lines for the middle bases now have some destructible rocks that open that up even more.
It is still a "restrictive" map I guess (I didn't change the boundaries). For now you'll just have to live with it -- although it is likely to change in a few days to 148x148 just to make it look better and make some airplay truly truly possible.
Lovablemikey -- Tried what you had suggested, but I came to the conclusion that right now those changes would interfere with the premise of side attacks and multi-pronged attacks like I had desired originally for the map.
Here is the overview update and I will be updating the OP as well. This is Version 0.7 now I think (WOW!) in terms of what's published.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6eMNy.jpg)
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Map seems like an automatic veto for any Protoss. No ramp at the main and no realistic chance for a Forge Fast Expand. Looks pretty good for Zerg though (in all matchups) except for the lack of air-space behind mineral lines. Terran is good on basically any map but Immortal all-ins in TvP look a little hard to hold.
Edit: My suggestions:
Narrow the area that needs to be defended at the natural once the rocks get knocked down. It's WAY too wide. Nat entrances should be FFEable for Toss and bunkerable by Terran (actually it looks pretty hard to get spines in good positions too). It needs to be possible to protect the main and natural at once.
Need a force-fieldable choke to the main and it's kinda dumb to not have it (the main) on the high-ground, mostly for PvPs sake of course.
Otherwise I like it. 3rd base position interests me greatly. Right now though I feel like ZvP would be automatic free win (admitedly it's one of my better matchups anyway).
Also the more I look, the more I feel like hellions could be supremely dangerous on this map in all matchups.
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Updated to version 0.10.
- I really don't think it's going to be an issue for a toss to FFE or for a terran to bunker so long as they place it properly (no sloppy work). Look at the FFE image for what I mean -- I think that's doable (albeit with a little bit of hard work perhaps).
- Fixed the main choke
Keep it coming!
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Didn't see the FFE image. I'd need to try it out but I feel like as long as Zerg plants their natural then an early roach bust will either win or leave them WAY ahead. If they don't they'll most likely still win but if Toss holds it off (even with 8 canons) they will be ahead.
Bunkering up in TvP can't cover all entrances with a reasonable number of bunkers IMO. I'll play on it in the next couple of days and let you know how I go.
I think all of this could be fixed if the entrance to the main was further away from the natural ramp. Right now you have to defend two very wide ramps because moving back lets the enemy straight into your main. I'll let you know how I go after more playtesting. I still like everything outside of the naturals tho .
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Thanks for the help althaz. I am only a bronze league player so I'm definitely not the best source to rely on for issues playing a map (hence why I post here).
- Originally I had planned on only having 1 double wide ramp coming from the natural with the area where the rocks and ramp are being just a cliff ledge for harass (i.e. reapers/collosi/other cliff jumpers) ---- if I were to revert back to that - do you think that would solve the issue if there proves to be one?
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Updated to Version 1.0
Changes:
Removed rock ramps on natural--cliff is open for harass uses Map bounds changed to 144 x 144 to include air play possibilities and drops
New Overview
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0XWxJ.jpg)
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Great map, I love the feel of it and how it would be played out, the only concern is that a third for zerg looks quite hard to take, as I don't feel like you would want to take the mid expand, and the other third is just very far from reinforcements.
Besides that, texture up the main attack routes, and that is a very solid map.
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